A Certified Man Builder Who Helps Broken Men Grow With Dr. Joe Martin

00:00
The first question they always ask about what I do. And I hate giving people standard answers because, know, we take, I’m a photographer. I’m this, I’m that. Well, I always get them when I tell them that they said, what do you do? I say, I’m, I’m a professional certified man builder. That’s what I do. Now, Nick, you imagine the response I get, especially if I’m sitting next to a female, what they say, I say, I fixed broken men. That’s what I do. And so it starts a great conversation, but they, but the obvious question is

00:29
What is a professional certified man builder?

00:39
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self-Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan, and today on the show I have Dr. Joe Martin. Joe, how you doing, Man, I’m doing great. I told you, Nick, when we were coming on, I felt better. Yeah. matter of days. It’s like I’m getting a little bug coming on, but I’m good to go, man. I’m excited about being on the show with you, I appreciate that. And look, I get how that happens sometimes. You wake up in the morning and you’re feeling great. Like two, three, four hours later, you’re like, ah.

01:06
you feel like I got hit by a bus or like you’re slowly getting hit by a bus. Like, yeah, I feel like I’m being run over slowly. I’m like, it’s just hippie for goodness sake. Oh, my goodness. It’s like an old school cartoon where they’re slowly knocking you down. You’re like, I don’t know why this sucks so much. So I appreciate that. And I guess good way to start this off, because if people are like, man, got a lot of energy, then by the end of this, it sounded like he was asleep.

01:31
I hope it’s not me. Hopefully I can sustain my energy. It’s so ironic though, I am an energy guy. Most people know me for my passion. When a mic is put in front of me or I’m on stage or I’m doing something like this, the energy, they’re going to say, that dude was sick. I hate to see him when he was healthy. The energy just comes through. I don’t know where comes from, but it just comes through. We’ll be fine. I love that. Yeah, I’m the same way.

01:58
The exact same way. And I think there are certain bits and pieces of that that we can get into as we kind of have the conversation because certain people will put that on as a facade. Like when you have that as part of your being and you’re just naturally curious and energetic and excited about life. Some people have that as a face and then they take that face off and they’re just there’s darkness and depression back there. But I’m sure you go through deep and dark different things at different times before we go down that path.

02:26
why don’t you kick us off? Tell us what you do for a living and what’s one thing that most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre? All right. Well, and I know we don’t have an all day, so I won’t. I’ll share as much as you want me to share based on what you ask me, but I’ll kind of give a bird’s eye view. I travel quite a bit next. So I’m on the plains. People normally ask. It has gotten better since post covid or even pre covid.

02:53
used to, everybody always talked to you on the plane. They don’t talk to you on the plane much. No, no. But the first question they always ask about what I do. And I hate giving people standard answers because, you know, we’ll take, I’m a photographer. I’m this, I’m that. Well, I always get them when I tell them that they said, what do you do? I say, I’m, I’m a professional certified man builder. That’s what I do. Now, Nick, you imagine the response I get, especially if I’m sitting next to a female.

03:20
They said, I said, I fixed broken men. That’s what I did. And so it starts a great conversation. But the obvious question is, what is a professional certified man builder? And then I tell him, I said, there’s no such thing. I created that that’s branding. Yeah, I said, but it’s a great conversation. Start. I said, but what I do, I said, I help men, particularly men of faith, win at what matters and frustrates and challenges them the most as men, as husbands, as fathers, as leaders of their home. uh

03:50
and helping them grow as men. And so that’s what I do. that’s typically I tell explain to people my profession. I think the second part of your question is what most people wouldn’t know about me. You know what? What’s kind of weird and something that most people wouldn’t know or probably even your closest friends. I like to be able to get like down to the down to those weird things. Oh, now see it’s different when if you’re talking about the person Joe Blow and who never met before. doesn’t know anything about you.

04:17
I’ll give you two then what the average person wouldn’t know if I just met them or hung out with them a little bit. They wouldn’t know that I’m an avid, when I say avid, I am an avid, avid, avid pickleball player. And I play and compete nationally in tournaments all across the country. You told me that you’re in Albuquerque. mean, I’ve been, I’ve played in New Mexico. I’ve been all over the. um

04:45
country playing pickleball and I am addicted to the sport. And I wanted to play for a couple of years, but I’ve gotten really, really good and I’ve probably meddled in half the tournaments that I’ve played in. And so, um, that’s probably what most people wouldn’t know about me. Now, when it comes to my closest friends, Oh man, that now that’s when the question gets more difficult because, you don’t know me personally, Nick, but, um, my life is an open book. Um, most people, um,

05:12
a shot and surprise how vulnerable I’m willing to be and how much I’m willing to share about my personal life. But as a professional speaker and an author, I’m on stage always talking about my life and that’s the good, bad, the ugly and everything. So it’s not much that I can tell people that they wouldn’t have either heard me say on stage, heard in an interview.

05:33
And to my point, my wife gets mad sometimes it’s you can’t tell everybody everything. You got to just keep between something. But I actually tell him, but how can I help people if they don’t really know and you don’t tell them the truth? So that’s a tough question about what I’m thinking. What would my friends not know about me that I haven’t told them? And wow, wow. Nobody’s ever asked me that question before. What would they not know?

05:59
Wow. Wow, I got something. Oh, and this is not that deep though, but it’s something you wouldn’t know. um I hate, I don’t like cooking. not, I mean, I’m not like horrible, but I don’t care if I ever cook, I won’t even touch a stove. My stove like, it’s never been touched. We have two kitchens, so my wife cooks on, that’s the whole, that’s another story. But.

06:27
I don’t cook, here’s what people know that, but what they don’t know, Nick and I can’t explain it. Well, maybe I can’t explain it. your best. We can love cooking shows. Gordon Ramsay, oh, Hell’s Kitchen and MasterChef. Dude, I can’t get enough of watching that stuff, man. I just love watching it. And my wife and my daughter and even my son, look like, why, why? Why are you watching that? You don’t even like cooking.

06:56
Why did you watch it? And most people are shocked when they hear that I like watching cooking shows because people know I don’t cook. And so, but I think I really enjoy it so much is because it’s not about the cooking itself, but if you ever watch those shows, Nick, the passion that cooks have, it blows me away. I know why I get passionate about what I do. You know why you get passionate about what you do. Cause we, we help people. We make an impact on their lives. We’re changing lives. We’re changing their mindsets. We’re doing all this.

07:25
this great stuff. They’re just cooking a meal. But yet it’s not just cooking a meal. And they tear up when they talk about it. They cry. And I mean, they take it so personal. And when somebody likes their food, I’m like, I had no idea that you get that passionate about cooking. so passion recognizes passion. So what I do is I highly respect people who can cook and who love anything that they do. I don’t care if it was a cooking show.

07:54
or it was a photography show. Anybody with that kind of passion, they have my respect. So most people wouldn’t know that about me. Well, I’m glad that you continued on the way that you did so we didn’t have to get into your food porn addiction. And actually have to come to grips with that. What a cool thing to be able to passion recognizing passion. uh I don’t think that people talk about that enough. I’m sure.

08:22
you know, if you and I were hanging out, we would talk about it. They’re the people that are like us that are complete nerds in that sort of sense, like, Oh, my God, did you see this? Did you see how this together? Most people like shut up. just hungry. oh I’ve tried to have conversations with people about that about sports. Like growing up, I played some sports growing up, but I was mainly a fat little kid who played like left back on away games. It was pretty bad.

08:51
But I was pretty good at baseball and I remember thinking, well, if I did something, I could do something with that and then didn’t want to do it through, through high school and kind of stepped away from it. I mean, it was hard in 2001 with 76ers getting to the finals. I mean, it was hard to step away from sports at that point, but I remember stepping away from it, not watching or anything. And then maybe seven, eight years later, I started watching again and it hit me. It was the same thing. It was about the passion. Yeah. These guys and

09:20
girls, women, go out and they put everything into every moment, every single nanosecond. And that’s just what we see. You don’t see all the stuff before that. Like they talk about it like, yo, first, this person’s the first one in the gym. This one’s the last one to leave the field all that. And you think like, that’s cool. Can I have another hot dog? You know, like whatever, and you just go about with life. But that passion and being able to see that and understanding the

09:49
the actual depths that are below that. I’m sure you get into some of that stuff with the men. Like I often think about we’re not broken. We’re just blocked. There’s just something that’s blocked and we need to be able to work through it and process through it and tell us a bit about the maybe not specifically like naming out some of the men, but some of the situations that you’ve seen where men felt like they were totally broken and they were able to see that passion again within themselves and therefore their purpose came out.

10:18
And life just changed. Like they dramatically had that energy back again. Yeah. That’s a broad question, but what I can tell you in general that I think would help the audience in hearing, we work with a lot of men. mean, we coach them, we mentor them, we counsel them. We offer them accountability. We do small groups. We do large groups. I speak to men. And so in a sense, uh

10:46
When I say I’m a certified professional man builder, even though I’m saying that tongue in cheek, I know more about men than the average man. And you can imagine I’m often requested on television, radio, to be this quote man expert. And it’s not that I’m all that, I’m smart and all that. It’s just that I just have taught to a lot of men. if anything, instead of pointing at

11:14
anything particular, I would look at the broad picture of what I see a struggle with the most as men. Cause I think that would benefit the listener. Um, because he may, I’m sure you have women listening to, but he may be unaware that, um, these are major challenges in his life. Um, and what I see from what I’ve learned, um, working with men and watching men and coaching men, mentoring men is that, um, we struggle with, um, several issues. One is identity. Um, we don’t know who we are.

11:44
And we define ourselves by what we do most of the time. And if it’s not by what we do, we measure ourselves by results uh and what we accomplish or don’t accomplish. And we measure ourselves by how we feel uh guilt, shame, uh Selfishness is another challenge that we have to deal with. uh We’re always on our mind and we’re only thinking about ourselves a lot of times. uh And so our perspective is skewed.

12:13
because we think life is about us. And so that’s an issue that I see us struggle with, fear, which, I’m sure you see this a lot of times, like you said, about being blocked. What’s blocking us usually is fear. We’re afraid of something. Something won’t happen. Something will happen. It won’t happen the way we want it to happen. And so that fear keeps us paralyzed. And we’re afraid of so many different things from failure to even success that we don’t know how we’re to deal with it.

12:43
And so that’s a challenge that we face as men. I’m dealing with a lot of men. realize pride, ugh, is a huge issue, huge issue with us, our egos. We won’t admit when we need help. We won’t admit that we can’t do it. We won’t say, hey, I need you. I need you. We won’t admit it. So our pride gets in the way. And if it’s not… um

13:09
an arrogant pride, I don’t need you. It’s a fearful pride. What would you think of me if I do ask you for help? Another thing we battle with is ignorance. And I’m not just talking about a level of education. I’m talking about, don’t know how to do something. And we’re not asking people to help us, teach us, but we would rather go on not knowing, pretending we know when we don’t know. So we don’t know how to change. I often joke, but it’s not really a joke, it’s the truth that

13:37
As men, we suffer from what I call undiagnosed learning disability that the school system did not pick up on when we were in grade school. Cause you’ve heard of ADD, ADHD and all this, these other affinities, but we overlooked ABT, the learning disability ABT ain’t been taught. And most of us want to be successful as men, husbands and fathers, but the truth of the matter is we weren’t taught by the fathers in our home or the men in our circles. So ignorance is a huge challenge for us.

14:07
One of my pet peeves that I know that we have is men. In all these things and stuff, had to fight in my, I fight in my own life. I’m not immune from all this stuff. I go through this stuff too. But it’s interesting. I knew I battled with this stuff, but to know how many men also struggle with the same things is enlightening and also refreshing because you realize you’re not alone. And so we all need each other. But another big one, and this is my pet peeve with us as men is apathy. We don’t care enough to change. It hasn’t gotten bad enough.

14:36
We treat it it’s not a big deal. One way I put it in context for us, said, our wives are telling us when things are not right, baby, do you smell, Nick, do you smell this? Did you smell some smoke? I think I smell smoke. Oh, baby, it’s no big deal. It’s not any smoke. I thought I heard an alarm go off. No, I’m sure it’s nothing. Nick, I think there’s a little fire in the kitchen. I think that’s where the smoke is coming from, the kitchen. I’m sure you can handle it, baby. Take care of it. It’s no big deal.

15:06
And end up happening, the whole house burns down except the couch was sitting on. And then we’re wondering why she’s leaving. Cause everything we’ve owned has been burned down except the couch we were sitting on. And we wonder why won’t she come back? Because she doesn’t, she, she’s lost everything except that couch you’re sitting on. So we tend not to care until it gets really, really, really bad. And a lot of men I know can relate to that because that’s when now they’re in counseling. They’re getting the help they need.

15:34
And they think it now that’s going to save their relationships, but they waited too long and counseling was not meant to save a relationship. It was supposed to help you maintain a strong relationship, help you see your blind spots. But um I’ll give you a few more things that come to mind. um Laziness is a challenge. um That’s why I think you and I resonate with people who are passionate because that’s not something they battle with is laziness. They know what they want. They’re going after it. They’re going to run through a brick wall to get it.

16:02
But also people like us have a low tolerance for people who are lazy. And I put lazy in quotes because even we get lazy by stuff we’re not excited about. I’m talking about the person who seems not to get excited about anything. They’re just stuck. Like you said, they’re being blocked. They don’t feel quote motivated. Another thing is that we got our priorities mixed up. A lot of men, they put career above everything.

16:29
and gets out of whack and then they wonder why their relationships are suffering. They’re focusing, they’re majoring, I call majoring in minors because you want to know what’s really important to you and we were joking about this coming on because I tell you my health is going down a little bit as I do this interview. You want to know what’s important to you? Get sick. Get sick. And I’m talking about, ain’t talking about, oh, a cold got the sniffles. Get real sick when you are bedridden and you can’t

16:58
You can’t go to bathroom on your own. um You might be highly contagious. You want to know what’s really important? You’ll find out then. When you can’t physically do what you want to do and you need assistance whether you ask for it or not, then you’ll find out what’s really most important to you in your life. And I know we can go on and on, but I’ll tell you the last thing I can think of that off the of my head that I see us battle with is men. Commitment. Commitment.

17:25
We won’t finish what we start we won’t endure to the end again That’s why we like athletes and we love these people are passionate because they follow through they don’t just start strong. They finish strong Yeah, and we’re good at okay. I’m gonna change but yet we don’t maintain the change We lack the consistency and the discipline um To see it to the end. So those that’s when I think about what we do and how we help men Those are the things that I see as the major issues that I see that most men have and that at least I talk about a lot

17:55
when I’m being interviewed on other shows too as well. Sure. As a man who’s gone through stuff, just like every man has gone through stuff in some sort of fashion, there’s something that has shifted the way that they live or made them fearful or whatever. ah I think there are patterns that we can see. And you brought up a few things that really stood out to me, like the systems, the educational system, the family system.

18:25
Just the systems that we’re raised in and that we’re taught within and the systems that we feel things should look a certain way. And certain men will have that, you you just put dirt on it, get the hell back in the game sort of situation where they do that to themselves. Even if you look at sports, they don’t do that. If you hit your head the wrong way, they’re like, you’re sitting out at least to play and we’re going to put you in the blue tent to see, can you tell where the light is? You know?

18:54
Is there something wrong here instead of just putting dirt on it and going back in? I guess maybe I’m not totally right with that because there is hockey. They’re a different breed. Hockey doesn’t give a flip about you. It’s like, know, your arm is hanging off. I don’t give a shit. Onward. I got a hat trick in front of me. Fair enough. Hockey, gotta love it. Especially they’re still fighting. They’re like, that’s fine. Like, have at it.

19:24
Don’t get into the stands. uh So I think there are patterns to all of this. And I always think about how things have created themselves to be something that we think that they are in the moment. But it’s not the thing that happened in the moment. It’s back to something that happened before our childhood and our traumas and the systems that we were raised within. So when people have any of these problems, any of the stuff that you’re talking about, these are symptoms.

19:51
but how do you help them through their traumas? How do you help them really not only process it, but like you were saying, being able to continue on with it and actually be able to get the work done and not just put a bandage over a literal broken arm at that point? Well, we help them by one, first of all, getting them to be honest about it. And to admit it, uh you can’t address an issue you’re not willing to confess ah to others about. And that’s the problem.

20:20
um We live and I call it we we suffer in silence a lot of times So at least when it comes to us helping men we get them in a place where we put them in an environment where it is safe um Without judgment without shame without guilt without condemnation that they can be honest and Sometimes the best words any man could ever hear Other than I’m talking about even better than advice is man me too. Mm-hmm I was just interviewing a guy on our show today

20:50
on our podcast and he and his wife had two miscarriages, lost a boy and lost a girl. And I told him, said, unfortunately, I can relate because I’ve lost two kids to miscarriages. And so um even though those were painful experiences in our lives, we were both able to bond because of that. So the way we help men is we have to put, first of all, get them in a safe environment where they…

21:18
feel that it’s safe to share and it’s healthy to grow in it without fear of being judged or ostracized or rejected or I call it um somebody looking at you funny and sideways and pulling away from you. Get them in that type of environment and then being able to be honest and transparent about it and then have another man be able to look at you say, hey man, me too. Now we’re not gonna have a pity party about it, but now that you can get that off your chest and we can talk about it, you don’t have to be ashamed about it.

21:46
I often tell men also that God will only choose to heal what you choose to reveal not conceal so You can get help with almost anything you’re dealing with if you’re willing to open up your mouth about it and talk about it And I know one of the biggest things that was for me that I struggle with that really almost destroyed my life from Over 30 something years until I finally opened up my mouth was talking about being abused sexually as a child

22:15
I had been sexually abused for three years as a child and I never told another soul about it. They talk about, you know, what do people not know about you? Now the world knows about me being sexually abused child. But the person who I should have told when, when, um, when I was going through life would have been my first wife and I didn’t tell her. And because I did not tell her and did not open up to her about it, I ended up ruining a 16 year marriage because of it. Um, but trying to hide it because I,

22:44
Of course, when you’re going through that kind of pain and you’re not willing to be open and honest, and you don’t find a safe place to share, and my wife should have been at least one of the safe places for me, and she probably was, I just didn’t do it because of my own pride and my own ego, some of the issues I tell you we’d struggle with as men. I kept it from her, and you’re as sick as your secrets, and it destroyed our marriage. It almost destroyed me. And so, one reason why I do what I do with men, because I’m showing them

23:13
I’m using my life as a cautionary tale. I had it all. I I went from rags to riches to ruin to redemption. I mean, started with nothing in the projects of Miami, ended up having everything I ever wished for and ever wanted in my life um in my 20s, man. And then had it all and lost it all by the time I reached the age of 40, because I blew up my life, got addicted to porn, women, and then became a sex addict. I mean, it was horrible. All because I was hiding from the pain.

23:42
of my past. So the way we help men is to get them to step out of the shadows of shame and guilt and condemnation, say, it’s okay. There’s nothing you can tell me that’s going to shock me because I talked to too many men. mean, I’ve heard it all. Nick, there’s nothing a man can tell me from men killing people. Okay. To being, um, being, um, threatened or kidnapped. mean, I’ve heard it. I’ve heard it all, Nick. All. And so that

24:09
creates us an environment of safety for men around me. And I’ve created that environment in our community that men feel that way because that’s the first step to healing is honesty about your trauma in your past and not have to keep finding yourself keep trying to run away from it. And I’m sure you’ve experienced a lot of people feel traumatized even just thinking about it again. They don’t want to they don’t want to deal with it. There’s even talk about um health therapy and talk therapy.

24:39
doesn’t help as much as it could or should possibly even because it just brings it back up and you don’t actually process through it. You don’t go in and subconsciously heal it and get it out of your cells. You’re just kind of talking through it. But that is with overkill, I think. Like if you just keep talking and talking and don’t do other things to it, you have to do the other bits and pieces to it, the processing or whatever that’s gonna look like for you. uh But for a lot of men,

25:07
that go through stuff, they often think they’re alone, as I’m sure women do too. It doesn’t matter what sex, you probably do things and you’re like, I’m all unique and this is how I do things. It’s that first step to be able to actually talk about it. You just rattled off. You had a porn addiction, you were a sex addict, you were sexually abused, you had a marriage that disbanded after 16 years and now you help men.

25:34
That’s the reason why I have this show is to be able to get into the shit that you went through because the people that are actively going through it now or had recently gone through it or are actively trying to do something about it. They’re feeling alone or they’re feeling unsure of what they do, how they go through it. So talk to me about and talk to us about how you managed your mindset after the disbanding of the marriage and

26:03
Knowing that you were on your path to healing like you know that moment when you’re like man. I’m feeling better I’m actually doing the work and you look back and you look back at it go what have I done to get here? How did I do this? What was that like for you? And how did you how did you manage your mindset throughout all of that? Well, it was a long process that now I’ve been able to streamline with our men and Nick I want to go back to something you pointed could you point out very very important point about Talking about it doesn’t solve anything

26:33
You you got to be able to be, open your mouth. That’s the first step is to talk about it because how, if you’re not talking about, you’re not addressing it, then guess what? If you’re not addressing it is going to suppress you. And so it’s, like trying to keep a beach ball underwater. Um, you might see for a little bit, but eventually it’s going to slip and it’s going to pop up in the farther you try to push it down, the higher is going to pop up out of that water when it finally exposes itself. And that’s what it was for me. Um, so.

27:03
It was a process of that mindset shift and looking back on that process now, I’m able to streamline it to help guys now that doesn’t have to take them over. think was me. was over a 15 year process. But when I recognized that there were pretty much five things that helped me when I look back on us. Oh, so this is what was necessary for me to make that shift. And even then I didn’t know what I knew about the five things, but I thought it was just me.

27:33
You know, okay, that’s just helping me until I started doing my podcast. Um, this week, I think we released the episode 805. I mean, we’ve, been around for a while. Um, 805. So imagine how many interviews Nick. So, um, I’m talking to these men on our show and our show is about writing your comeback story. Cause I have a comeback story. And what I noticed is the question you’re asking me, I noticed that without them being prompt.

28:03
They’re mentioning the same things that I did. And it wouldn’t be all five, but it’ll be at least one of them. And now imagine over 805 episodes, all five kept being hit all the time. so I’m a little bit slow. Hmm. That’s interesting. And we’re saying the same thing. So for your listening audience, what I would tell them that it took me 15 years to figure out, but my show, it took me about two years into my show. We’re now in year eight.

28:32
And so it took me about to year two of um the show to figure it out that, this is what they all had in common. And with us, the shift came when one, and I can’t speak for people out there, but I’ll tell you, we target men of faith about having a personal intimate relationship um with Christ. That was important for us. And for those who are not oh quote believers or are faith-based,

29:01
I’ll put it in another context. Um, any man that I’ve talked to, you have to have something bigger than you that you believe in. You can’t be it. I can kill you. You can die. No, it’s gotta be something bigger than you. But, um, so for anybody based on their own religion and faith, I don’t, it doesn’t matter. But when I noticed that it has to be something bigger than you, something has to supersede you.

29:31
to give you a bigger meaning for what life is all about. And so I know that all these men had that in common. And so that’s when the shift started happening. We realized, oh, it ain’t about me. It’s bigger than me. How did I get here? What’s the meaning of life? Why am I here? What was I meant to do? And guess what I find out? My friends can’t give me the answer to those questions. Something must be bigger than me that has an answer to those questions.

29:59
So the search begins. So whatever you searching for, that’s what I was, you I had to discover what that was. That changed everything when I realized life was bigger than me. Also, when you realize life is bigger than you, now you’ll see that that past trauma that you’ve gone through and the pain and the suffering and the loss. Now it starts to take on a new meaning because now you see meaning in it. You find purpose in it and you realize your pain doesn’t have to be wasted. There could be a purpose behind the pain.

30:29
Because now I could help people who’ve been sexually abused. could help people who are recovering porn addicts and sex addicts. I can relate to somebody who grew up in the projects, in the hood, and abject poverty. I can relate to people who’ve lost children to miscarriages. I can relate to people who have friends shot and killed, and family members who were incarcerated. I can relate to that when I thought that was my punishment in life, that bad things were happening to me.

30:57
No, it wasn’t to break me. was to build me. It wasn’t to rule my life. It was actually being added to my resume to give me the credentials and the qualifications to be able to help other people deal with their pain and suffering. So one, I noticed that was a big thing that you had to have something bigger than you that drives you. I ain’t talking about a career. I’m talking about a purpose that’s bigger, something that transcends this reality. um Another thing was

31:27
I didn’t realize the importance of having a community, a team around you. Um, I realized very quickly as I did my show and started talking to more men and wow, I have more degrees in the dog on thermometer, man. You think I’m smarter to figure this out. But I didn’t know until I started doing this that a man, and I guess you could say for women, but I only work with men. um a man is only as strong as the number of other stronger men he has on his team.

31:56
We were talking about sports, you know, you can look at even individual sports. They still have a team around them. Even individual sports. Tiger Woods has a swing coach. He has a probably a mental psychologist, somebody helping with his mental game. has a nutritionist. So he has a team around him. And what I realized, a man is only as strong as his team. He needs uh a community, a team of men around him. Um, my faith shows this.

32:27
because Jesus had a personal intimate relation with his father, something bigger than him, and he had a team of other people around him called disciples. You know, he had a team of 12, even though he had more than 12 following him, it was 12 that he selected to be on his team, and they weren’t perfect. So we don’t have to find the perfect team out there, but we do need a team. So even with my daughter, who’s now 21, I tell her that you make sure that you check his team.

32:55
I said, okay, how good the guy looks. don’t care how he smells. I don’t care how much money he makes. I don’t care how cute he is. better make check his team. A man who has no accountability can’t be counted on. He needs a team. Now within that team, here’s the third thing I’ve noticed that within that team, you have to have what I call an inner circle. Even within the team, the men in your huddle. Now we have a community of men.

33:23
But let’s look at football as example. They have the team with about 48, 49 players on the football team, but they’re split into offense, defense, special teams. And guess what? The quarterback has relationship with everybody on the team, but he has a special relationship with the wide receivers and the offensive linemen. And when they go out on the field, they’re not on the field at the same time. He’s in the huddle with the offense. The quarterback is.

33:53
And he’s not hanging out with the safety or the defensive end, but they love each other and they’re all trying to go towards a common goal, the Super Bowl, but they have their own personal connections even within the team. And the way I describe it is that every man needs um at least two or three guys. Now this is even inside his team, at least two or three guys who he can tell his deepest, darkest secrets to all of his flaws, insecurities.

34:22
stupidity, stupid stuff that does and that man not lose respect for him. Know what I’m talking about? Where you can tell a good friend of you or something and they’re like, really Nick? But you could tell about somebody in your inner circle. I got you, bro. I got you. What tears in your eyes and you can’t even look him in the face. He’s putting his arm around you. It’s all right, Nick. It’s all right. Now you got some good friends. Not every friend is going to respond to your same sex attraction.

34:52
somebody in your inner circle. Are you following on this? Even Jesus had that. He had his 12 disciples, but anyone who reads the Bible realizes that Jesus had his best in his worst moments and at the miracle moments always had the same three guys around him. What a coincidence. Now there’s 12, but the same three kept popping up at very insignificant times, at very significant times. It was Peter, James and John. I don’t think that’s coincidence.

35:22
Why Peter, James and John every single time? And so I believe and I look back at my life and I look at, I can find those inner circle guys who’ve been with me through the divorce, the confession of sexual abuse, the sex addiction, losing my parent, my mom on Thanksgiving day, who can see me cry and not think I’m weak. Are you following me? And I don’t have to put on a mask in front of those people.

35:52
That I’ve learned during this journey of changing your mind. You have to have something bigger than you to believe in. You have to have a team of men around you. You have to have some men in your huddle and your inner circle, your foxhole friends. call them your, your, your, your, your, foxhole friends, your huddle buddies, your battle buddies, those guys in the trenches with you who, if you went to jail, they were one of the first people you call it. That’s the one that not going to.

36:20
They’re going to help you get out for they cuss you out. You call them when you’re in jail. Those guys and every, do you know how many men want somebody like that in their their huddle so bad and they just can’t find them and they say, man, I just, man, I just wish I could trust somebody like that. You need that. You need that. Here’s the fourth one. And this is when you would think the obvious Nick, but I’m shocked that men, most men don’t get this. You can’t change your, your destiny. You can’t change your mindset.

36:49
You can’t change your life without a coach. You can’t. Most men would like to believe they can. You can’t. Here’s how I can prove it. We keep talking about sports. Name one sport, Cricket. I don’t care what the sport is. Or Quidditch. It don’t matter. Name one sport where somebody has won a world championship.

37:18
A gold medal without a coach. Name one. You can’t in humankind, the history of man, no one in life has ever won anything significant in sports without a coach. Now, that sounds so simple, but here’s how crazy we are as men. Nick, now go up to the average man, the average one, and ask him, do you want to be a champion husband? Well, yeah.

37:48
Do you want to be a champion as being a father? Yeah. Do you want to be a champion leader, business owner, um whatever, entrepreneur? Yeah. Who’s your coach? I don’t have one. Then guess what? You are delusional. Either you’re arrogant, naive, or you’re delusional. Because no one has ever done without

38:17
And most men don’t have someone who can pour into them, teach them. I’m talking about somebody even fantastic, somebody just a little bit ahead of you. Just a little bit ahead of you as a father, as a husband, as a leader, as an entrepreneur, as a co-worker, somebody ahead of you that can help you navigate and save some time on avoiding unnecessary mistakes.

38:44
Somebody just a little ahead of you and here’s the most people think when they think coach or somebody has to be somebody older than me. Uh-uh. Age has nothing to do with it. doesn’t make you a great coach. Age doesn’t make you wise. It just makes you old. Do you have any maturity? Do you have any success in that? Why in the world are you going to go out on, uh go pursue something?

39:12
And somebody’s already done it before successfully and you’re not asking them how they did it. That’s common sense. And most men, don’t mean I’m feeling as a husband, I’m feeling as a father, I’m feeling as this. Well, who’s your coach? Well, I don’t have one. Then of course you’re going to. You have to fail. You have to. If you don’t fail, this ain’t working. Life ain’t right. Ain’t right. If you can succeed without a coach, then life don’t make sense. And I I can name someone great.

39:41
Anyone forget sports great who didn’t have a mentor. Name one you’re talking about the richest man in the world. Rich man in world has mentors and coaches. So that was one of the fourth that one just bouncing because that seems like the most no brainer. And yet most men I would say if I had to put a number on it nine times out of 10 most men don’t have coaches and mentors. They don’t that sounds crazy to me 90 % yeah.

40:11
9 % don’t have it and here’s the last one and most men I get in trouble when I tell them this but again I had to learn some a 15 year process We need counseling We got to get counseling Nick. There’s no way around it We need to get counseling. I said when I said when’s last time you had counseling? Well, I’ve never had it before. Okay. When that’s a counseling. It was about five years ago Well, say account. Oh, it was about two years ago and it said well, what’s the problem? I said, what’s the problem? I said, do you drive an automobile?

40:41
I yeah. I said, how do you get the oil changed? Every 3000, 5000 miles? I said, what if you waited every three or five years to get it changed? What happened to your car? They say, burn out the engine. I said, guess what? You’re burning out yourself. You would change the oil in a freaking car, but you won’t get counseling. Are you freaking crazy? See, we think counseling for crazy people. No, you crazy if you don’t go to counseling. Counseling wasn’t there to fix you.

41:10
It was helping you. It’s an oil change to check. When I go to counseling, I go to counseling at least three times a year. It’s not because my life is falling apart, Nick. Can you check the air pressure? Can you check the tires? Can you check the oil? Can you check, can you check the, can you check? I just want to make sure I can keep this car on the road for as long as I possibly can. But there’s a dim between taking your car in three times a year.

41:39
and having to take it in every week. Do you know it’s cheaper to get a counselor three times a year than three times a week? They charge about $150 an hour. so counseling is common sense. And men, we have all this trauma. We didn’t have perfect parents. We didn’t grow up in a perfect environment. We’ve had betrayal happen in our lives. We’ve had broken relationships. And then you ask them, are you getting help for that? And most of them are not getting counseling. So that’s how.

42:08
I’ve been able to have my mind focused in the right way. But now to realize that, I gotta help you get these five things. You gotta have these five things in place. I’m not guarantee your life is gonna be easy, cause you have those five, but I haven’t met a man yet who has those five who ain’t winning. Now he may be crying while he winning, and he may be struggling while he’s winning, but he’s winning. I haven’t met a guy yet. I have these five things and my life sucks. I haven’t met one guy like that yet. Not one, not one. And over 800 something interviews.

42:38
Not one. That’s called a clue.

42:43
Powerful things. It’s interesting how a lot of men have a struggle with getting to the doorstep of any of that. So of course, it makes total sense that you haven’t talked to anybody on the podcast that thinks their life sucks with those five things because most of those people have been doing it for a little bit too. I could almost, I think about the gray area, the people that are in between that.

43:11
may be on the process of starting to go through some of that and may still think that their life sucks, but they might have two or three of them on lock and maybe not all of it. And being able to start wherever you start within that list as whatever, whatever men’s or man’s in whatever spot that they’re in, they need to be able to actually talk through it and work through things. And it’s interesting how a couple of those, I take notes as you were rattling them off.

43:40
And I’m looking at that list and how a couple of those are really specifically about talking and being open and being able to start that process of doing the thing that’s right for them to do. I’m sure you have different coaching sessions. I know I do at times where people will talk themselves to it and they go, all right, cool. Well, good talk. Glad you got there, you know, because sometimes it just helps you just to talk it out and just be able to get it, get it out. And I can tell your passion of

44:09
about this. I almost chuckled at one point because I was like, I remember this man telling me he was kind of of sick. I think it’s kind of bullshit. When I get going though, man, when I’m talking about what I’m passionate about, man, you know, just it’s an out of body experience. Yeah, that’s the way it should be, man. I mean, that’s the that’s the purpose within you to be able to get that out and that passion that you have. And I, I know they’re

44:37
men that are listening to this episode that are in different spots. Some that are right there with you that are like, go, go, go, go, go. Others that are like, look, you don’t understand though. And no matter where that man is, it sounds like the thing that you’re really getting to is just that initial step of being open to it. I’ve seen patterns within our podcast as well. Your episode is probably gonna be around 98, 99. So I’m close to 100.

45:05
and haven’t had the 800 plus on that note, well done with that, sir. That’s a lot. Yeah, that’s a lot, you know, I’m sure you’ve talked to other podcast hosts, a lot of people will get past two, five, or 10. But I’ve noticed patterns within this as well, and it’s similar of the self-awareness, that you need to have that self-awareness that there’s something, and I need to do something about that something. And being able to have a coach or counseling and kind of

45:35
work through those things with your friends, especially the inner circle buddies and those people that you can really rely on. I think that’s super important, but it’s also really important for us to understand that sometimes the first thing we need to do is just be self aware of it and just go, look, I understand that there’s something wrong. I understand that there’s something that’s happening or I feel some sort of way and being able to move from that. along those lines, what’s that one piece of advice you’d give somebody on their path towards self mastery?

46:05
I would tell them, don’t start at the end. Start with one step at a time. And I go back to what I said initially about you have to build your team. In our organization, what we’ve done, we’ve actually done all the heavy lifting for them. We’ve already built a team for them. They just have to step into it. And now it can be kind of scary because they’re stepping into a team where they’re going to have their team. We’ve already have them assigned at the end of the

46:33
And we have coaching set up for them and counseling and everything else in the training. it’s more so them stepping in blind, like just, can imagine how nervous they could possibly be. Wow. I don’t know these guys and already I’m supposed to be opening up. so guys who, know, I’m, I’m one of those guys to me experience is not the best teacher to the tuition is too high. I’d rather learn from other people’s experience. And so I don’t have a problem stepping into something that’s already been created. And I just need to step into it. But for the guy out there who is starting where he is,

47:03
Um, I would say you start with your team, um, and you start building your team. And the first thing I’ve had to look at all of those components, I will probably say if they’re not going to set up to an already created environment, like I’m describing to them is to start with, um, start with the counseling first. Um, because the counseling is going to get to your unresolved issues. So as scary as it is to be able to talk to others, it’s probably easier to talk to a stranger.

47:33
who doesn’t know you, who is a paid professional. And if you don’t just sign up for one of them, you want to do interviews. You want to, mean, I actually take counselors out to lunch in my own area, just so I can like, like as if they’re applying for a job. And a lot of them don’t want to have lunch with me. Guess what? I’m not hiring them as a counselor. I want to see somebody who’s really serious about getting to know me. And so I’ll meet them at Starbucks or what’s that place Panera Bread.

48:03
And I’ll talk with them. want to know their philosophy on how they look at things and everything. I’ll say, okay, I’ll sign up for some sessions with this person. And they don’t know you, so it makes it a little bit easier. But you got to get to you. You got to start with you being able to open up to more people. Because the way I look at it is that if you start with the counselor and you’re able to share some of those um things about your past, because they’re going to ask you about your parents. They’re going to ask you about your siblings. They’re going to ask you about um things that happened to you when you were in school.

48:32
all this other stuff, but when you become more comfortable about that, now you’re ready to get more into community, into community. And depending on what your trauma is, for me, that community was going to SAA, Sex Addicts Anonymous. Most people know about AA and recovery groups, and they have one called Celebrate Recovery for people who are addicts as well.

48:59
Um, you get into a community like that. You’re on a group of people who can understand and relate to your struggles, your struggles. So I would go from counseling. So, okay, now maybe to talk about it. Now I can be in, um, um, in a community with other people who can relate to me. Oh man, I understand. I’ve been through that too. And then within that community, this is where the inner circle comes in within that community. You’re going to bond with certain people different.

49:28
in that group. Nick, you may just happen to be sitting by me all the time. Or me and you have the same duties of handling the coffee when people come in or something. It might be something. It could be anything. But something’s going to click. While they’re sharing stories, something, oh, you’re from Miami too. Oh, you’re from Miami. something that you connect and bond on. so from that group, it’s going to be one or two, hopefully three people that you can now build that inner circle with.

49:57
and get to know them on a deeper level. that means even after the meeting, you guys are hanging out and you follow me. Hey man, let’s go down to Buffalo Wild Wings. Let’s watch the game. See, it doesn’t always have to be about your trauma. It just be about you building trust and building camaraderie with that person. You’re over the house watching the game or watching a fight, you know, a boxing match on TV, having a cookout. You invite them over to the cookout at your house because your wife, you know, can cook. I don’t know. It could be anything. So

50:25
through that inner circle net. Now look what you have. You’ve already started the counseling and hopefully now you don’t have to go to that counselor as often because now you’ve got you process a lot of that trauma. You’re now dealing with the long term of dealing with your addiction or whatever it is that you’re struggling. It doesn’t have to be an addiction group. It could be a group of writers like we’re talking about journaling. People like the journal people something that they have in common with you that gets you to talk and build relationships with then out of that you get your inner circle with that.

50:55
Now, while you’re in that inner circle or even around that community, keep your eyes open, your ears open. What’s going to happen is you’re going to see someone who seems to stand out among everybody else. We’re all in the same boat, but when that person, when Nick talks, everybody listens. Boy, when Nick gives input, boy, people are taking notes. Man, I love that. And when I hear Nick’s story, wow, that’s where I want to be one day.

51:24
Are you following me? So Nick, guess what I’m to do? I’m going to invite you out for lunch, for a cup of coffee. Because guess what I’m going to be doing, Nick? I’m recruiting you to be my mentor and my coach. I’m not going to ask you. See, I don’t ask mentors to be mentors. I recruit them. They don’t even know they’re mentoring me until like two or three years into the relationship. And then I expose them like, dang, I didn’t know I was your mentor. So why do you think I’ve been talking to you all this time?

51:54
but you recruit them. You recruit that person because you approach that person and you pull them to the side. Now in that, that person who’s a little bit ahead of you, I’m telling you, they’re going to tell you they can believe in something bigger than they are. Then you ask them, how did you have developed that relationship? Show me how I can seek that and find that. Teach me how. Now you can see now why it took me 15 years.

52:22
because I was building my team. It took me that long to find the right kind of mentors, to find the right counselor, to find the right people I can trust. Because guess what? Some of those people betrayed my trust. Some of those people I couldn’t count on. And it took me a while until I finally built a solid team. When I started this organization, now I was focused on nobody’s gonna have to go through what I went through with betrayal, the wrong people. I’m gonna already recruit the right people and build the team myself.

52:52
And I’m just gonna let Nick, I’m gonna let you take advantage of it too. I want you to meet my mentors. Are you following? I want you to meet my inner circle guys. I want you to meet my team. I want to introduce some of counselors. I’m gonna train you on how to have a personal intimate relationship with your creator. And so that’s what, that’s how I thought I could help men. Cause most men don’t have the patience to go 15 years or 10 years to honest. But it’s worth it. I’m telling you this, it’s worth it. It’s worth it. So.

53:22
That’s what I would advise you to do step by step process, but you can’t just jump to the end of it. If you’re to do it on your own, you’ve got to start building your team methodically and strategically and do it with some commitment. Yeah. You got to do the work. There’s no other way around that. Yeah. You got to do the work. There’s no way around it. have to That’s the only way to do it. You have to do the work to get to it. Right. Well, look, it’s been an awesome conversation. I really appreciate you being on today. Before I let you go, where can people find you and where can they connect with you?

53:52
Oh, that’s easy. All they have to do is go to realmenconnect.com. That’s real men, M-E-N connect C-O-N-N-E-C-T.com. And think about it this way, Nick. I’ll tell you guys how to remember it. What do real men do? They connect. You can’t grow and let you’re connected to other men. A man is only as strong as his team. Real men, what do they do? They connect. realmenconnect.com. And Nick, if they are struggling to reach out to that one person, even to that counselor,

54:20
What and now that he heard me and they heard a little bit about my story if they want to connect with me personally We have a limited number of time slots that I put on my schedule every week to talk to people in the public not just in our organization and if they go to realmen connect comm for slash call C all it would give them my schedule and it’s gonna be only a limited number of slots But if they can get on my calendar They would get them talked to me no different than you talk to me right now Nick And so they get about 45 minutes with me and we can talk about anything

54:48
Even if it’s now how to build your own team and how to start doing that. So realmenconnect.com or they can reach out to me personally, realmenconnect.com forward slash call, C-A-L-L. Awesome. What a, what a great situation that you have there, especially, uh, I love the open office hours being able to say, look, we’re here, we’re here to talk and that could turn. That’s my profession part of me coming out. used to be a university professor. I get it. I love that. mean, part of our company, we have an agency and.

55:18
We mess around with the idea of office hours and I enjoy the idea of it, of being able to go, here, you have questions, we’ll give you help for half hour, whatever it is, to be able to do that. So that’s cool that you do that. it’s free. And it’s free. The slots are limited, but the slots are limited. Yeah, and they always should be. uh Van, I appreciate you being on. Thank you so much for your time today. And I’ll have all that information in the show notes and all. Again, it’s been a pleasure having you.

55:46
Thank you, and Nick, keep doing the work you’re doing, man. Thank you for having me on the show. It’s been an