Embracing The Enneagram And The Flow Of Life With Chad Prevost

Nick McGowan (00:00.111)
Hello and welcome to the mindset and self mastery show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show. I’ve tried prevost. Chad, how are doing?

Chad Prevost (00:15.626)
I am doing really well. I’ve just come back from an intentional pilgrimage to Ireland with David White on a walking tour. And then I took our middle son to a college orientation in Lexington, Kentucky, and I’m back and I’m recovered from jet lag. So I’m doing, I’m doing really well. Thank you. It’s great to be

Nick McGowan (00:40.3)
Yeah, I’m glad that you’re here and I’m a bit jealous about you going to Ireland as a Mick. I’m a McGowan. I haven’t actually been over there yet. And some people have asked are you Irish? Are Scottish? And you know, in that sort of section of the world, I don’t know, I think they just drank and procreated for a long time. So not entirely sure, but at some point I’m going to get over there. How was that

Chad Prevost (00:49.06)
Hahaha

Chad Prevost (00:59.268)
really rewarding. Yes, do have, Shelley and I, my wife and I do have ancestry from there and don’t really know how to trace it all, but there was this sense of we had always wanted to go to Ireland and we just kind of manifested it, made it happen, and it was a celebration of our 25th anniversary as well. So was just a really special time. And David White, by the way,

That’s W -H -Y -T -E for those who don’t know him. He’s a poet. He’s from Ireland and England. His dad’s from England. His mom’s from Ireland, I believe. He lives in Seattle. And for 30 consecutive years now, he has been going on an annual pilgrimage, taking groups there. And he has the experience dialed in.

Nick McGowan (02:00.493)
That’s awesome.

Chad Prevost (02:01.648)
30 he’s been doing it since he’s 38 now he’s 68 wow

Nick McGowan (02:08.11)
You’d think after 30 years that you should have it figured out. But then again, that’s also part of the reason why we have this podcast is because we as people are still trying to figure this stuff out. And you and I were riffing a little bit about that before we hit record, but there’s just a lot of similar things and stuff that we can get into. So why don’t you kick us off, tell us what you do for a living and what’s one thing that most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or

Chad Prevost (02:36.098)
okay. Well, let’s see. I don’t know how these fit. I’m a coach and I do transformation coaching. It’s a lot of ontological kind of work connecting the body, the emotions and the head, which is very universal and versatile through with all the kinds of frameworks and different kinds of great coaching that’s out there. We do use a lot of the Enneagram. I’m also a poet.

I am also a retreat and workshop facilitator.

Nick McGowan (03:11.383)
I know we also talked a little bit about music and you’re trying to tickle the ivories a little bit right now too,

Chad Prevost (03:17.826)
Yeah, I, you know, I’m an okay musician, but I do feel like music is in my blood and I just really, I never wanted to let it go. So I’ve just kind of held onto it playing, you know, a little guitar or bass, or now working on some keys, playing with my brother, playing in a little band here in Chattanooga. Just kind of keeping connecting to it, you know, not trying to do anything.

too

Nick McGowan (03:48.502)
Yeah. Well, once it’s in your blood, I don’t really think most people can get away from it. you’re a musician or you feel the music. Like I’ve even had friends in the past where they’re like, I’m done playing, but it’s like, even if they’re done playing, they’ll still listen to something and go, my God, do you hear this? You hear how this worked? And you’re like, yeah, I feel it. so what’s that thing? That’s a little odd or bizarre.

Chad Prevost (04:04.536)
Yeah.

Chad Prevost (04:10.744)
Yeah, the weird odd thing, let’s see. Well, if poet wasn’t weird enough to people in our culture, when I was 17, I was in a heavy metal band and the band said, we are going to go get tattoos downtown. And I was like, all right, I’m the first born of a Baptist minister.

And I was in a really, I was in a heavy metal band. And we went in a, whole band, all five of us stuffed in a 57 Chevy. It’s true. It’s not just, it doesn’t just sound good. And we drove, we were in Richmond, Virginia, and we drove to downtown, downtown Richmond where I knew of a tattoo parlor called

And I suppose ironically enough, I knew of this because it was right next door to First Baptist Church where my family would take us. And so I’m underage, I’m ill, I’m not legal to do it, but the lead singer, the handsome lead singer who couldn’t sing very well, he got a tattoo. And so who was second in line? I was next. And I got three roses.

Nick McGowan (05:26.924)
There it is.

Chad Prevost (05:30.436)
three roses and had no meaning. Just like, it looked kind of good. Yeah, let’s get three roses on my deltoid. And then what happened? It was five o ‘clock in the evening and the other guys were like, yeah, I guess we’re out of time. I don’t know, maybe we’ll come back. And they never got their tattoos.

So I went on and lived my life since 17 with that not very good tattoo. And everyone told me different ideas of how to apply. Like, how could you combine those? And I was like, you know, I think I’m just gonna stop. I’m just gonna stop while I’m ahead there.

Nick McGowan (06:09.388)
Don’t make it worse. I’ve seen some people try to like cover things up and it can be really done really well. But some that can be like, what is that blob? What happened?

Chad Prevost (06:23.876)
Right, Yep. Lots of different meaning making we’ve tried to do about it. Different guys, some guys said put guns with it and have guns and roses. Some guys, my fraternity guys said, hey, put purple with it and make it the fraternity. I just left it alone. And it is a story and a weird thing from here on

Nick McGowan (06:45.099)
Well, you and I talked a little bit about intuition and it feels to me like you’re probably one of those people where you’re like, if intuitively you’re moved in a direction, you do it. Like if somebody made some sort of choice for you that was like, what about this? And you felt it, you probably would have done it. But if you didn’t have that intuition pull, then don’t do it. And that’s cool of you to be able to do that. And I think that, probably also gets into the Enneagram. Like I’m

Chad Prevost (07:02.532)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (07:13.843)
I’m a four three. So I feel every frigging thing. And my intuition is a big part of the way that I operate. Talk to us a little bit about how you got an Enneagram and what you are. Maybe start with a

Chad Prevost (07:28.398)
Okay, yeah, sure. And maybe I can even connect the quirky little fact to be taking us a little bit deeper as I know you wanna go in a short amount of time, which, you know, we could talk a little bit about some of my struggles in adolescence and what some of that yielded for me. I too, I’m an Enneagram four. We, you know, like we talk in terms of growth with the Enneagram, we often are like, well,

I understand that you can kind of lean into a given wing and that that can kind of describe someone a little bit more, but we use the subtypes, whether you’re maybe a little bit more of a sexual self -preservation or social, and that is really a huge flavor that it gives your actual type. So I am a sexual four, and the sexual instinct, that’s my dominant instinctual, the way

is distorted through my personality lens. So that is a little bit that brings I’m a four that isn’t like as as sad as the stereotypical four. I’m I’ve been in this character I can be more of an angry for a little bit more of an intense four which can sometimes look a little eightish and perhaps it is that very intensity that I brought

You know, they’re in my unaware 17 year old self that was just ready to just jump in and just, you know, get marked and do it for the band. So, yeah, I don’t know. The Enneagram is a fascinating man. We could talk the whole podcast and then some on the Enneagram. It’s a transformative.

powerful typology that’s more than any other typology. It’s because the work that’s been done behind it, looking at motivations, it’s truly transformative and that’s why we use it. I will say that, so, that really unaware, wounded, 16, 17 year

Chad Prevost (09:44.496)
who’s really confused, didn’t know who he was, was really an envy, the four, right? Was this angry envy of like, I’m going to like show everyone. And so I was really, I really pushed against my parents and my intense dad in my own intense way. And it just kept getting me into trouble.

So it wasn’t as effective as my Enneagram 7 brother. He had it figured out. With lightness and humor, you can do all the things that your big brother’s doing, but you can get away with it rather than pushing against. So, you I’d smoked, got, mean, everything’s relative, but I got into smoking a fair amount of pot in high school whenever I could get it.

Nick McGowan (10:23.229)
Mm -hmm.

Chad Prevost (10:37.12)
And I, know, whenever I could get inexpensive LSD, I was, and I was doing a lot and I was very confused. It was like, well, are you like this metalhead? Are you a deadhead? Are you good Christian boy? Like I was just, kept trying to, I was in cross country for a while, but the long and short is that it led me to getting a little bit of a chronic bronchitis and

My parents were just so, I had quit kind of everything. They were so concerned. said about me at the beginning of my, a little bit after the tattoo, they, at the beginning of my senior year, they put me in a hospital and I was so, and I was kind of tricked into that. And they were like, yeah, we’re just going to see a counselor and about an assessment. And next thing the guy was like, well, yeah, Chad needs to be hospitalized.

and I happened to have pot on me at the time and I like hid it in and took it into the hospital with me, which led to another whole drama. But I got into there and here’s, mean, this is the complexity of it all. got into the thing and I was so angry and so sure that I didn’t need to be in there. They said, you know, you’re here for a minimum of 30 days. And I was like ready to like fight.

and like tell them how wrong they were for it. But then when I learned that, I was like, you know what I’ll do is I’ll play the game and my revenge will be that I will come out unchanged, but I will fool them. And in a way that is kind of how it worked. I said, okay, I’ll get my haircut. I’ll follow these 12 steps. I’ll do all the things that you’re telling me to do. And I did get educated in

But I also was like internally, was like, you know, just, just fuck you to everybody. Big and that, you know, Nick, would say that we don’t have to pursue that with, you know, that whole narrative with too much depth. But there was this, you know, I did, I went through a period of really needing to prove myself in college and then in graduate school. And yeah.

Nick McGowan (12:33.138)
Mm -hmm.

Chad Prevost (12:58.252)
It’s that that has been that that like deal, you know, dealing with the father, the struggle, you know, of like, do you comply with what they want or do you rebel or do you find your own soulful way instead? That definitely was an early adulthood, mostly early adulthood into middle adulthood. I don’t know where I am. I think I’m in middle adulthood struggle. And yeah, so I don’t know.

But to bring it all the way up, I ended up becoming, I went to seminary, I did a PhD in creative writing poetry. I became a professor, a tenure track professor in English and writing. And I did that all for about a decade and it was fine, but it wasn’t what I thought it would be. And so I eventually, I loved teaching, but I didn’t love that system that I was in.

and it wasn’t manifesting in the dreams or what I was wanting it to be to like be a well -known writer, poet. And so I left it. And so a lot of the 20 teens was writing and like trying to make it still as a writer. There was still probably a lot, there was a lot of anger and irritation in me and not a lot of consciousness. Didn’t know I

and Enneagram four, I would have thought that I was very much a head type, you know, cause I think that, yeah. So to bring it all the way up to about 2019, I had been in a startup, a freight and logistics startup where I was proud that I was like supporting the family by being a writer. I was being a trade journalist.

Nick McGowan (14:24.177)
Sure.

Chad Prevost (14:43.664)
And it led to some podcasting and broadcasting, which was all just fun. As long as there was just distractions and like new things, I didn’t have to confront or deal with this isn’t who you are. And so around 2019, I kept getting frustrated with it. And my wife who had been burned out and on her own journey was ready to launch a new thing. And we were like, why don’t we do this together? Big self school.

And she had a background as a counselor. And I said, well, I’ll be your like media person. I’ll be your content, your R &D. And that’s how it began. And it started with learning this Enneagram. And I became so interested in it that I started getting certified in it. And it led to coaching. And I was like, that is a gift or a bit of a calling that had been denied in me probably.

through all of this like wanting to express myself and wanting to be understood as the Four wants to be. And this yielding and like and listening, like a superpower of the Four is handling difficult emotions. So we are, you know, cut out for that. And that has been, it’s been transformative. I would say I’ve had a huge five

Nick McGowan (15:45.766)
Mm

Nick McGowan (16:11.002)
Hmm. There’s an immense amount of stuff in that. Yeah, there’s a lot, but I think it does. You do, you do a great job of being able to point out the different pieces that were juxtaposition and how you saw, or at least look back at and go, this is where this worked and how I look at it this way. If we all knew the Enneagram from years and years and years ago, or even when we’re younger, it’d be a vastly different story.

Chad Prevost (16:13.232)
That’s a lot, man. I’m trying to connect a lot of dots. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (16:38.416)
There are people that listen to this podcast that are familiar at the Enneagram. There are some that have no idea what the hell we’re talking about. It’s not some alt version of Instagram. And then there are other people that really know every single thing, what they are. And I think this is a great topic for us to go into. I’m like you, I’m a sexual for, and for those listening that don’t understand that, does not mean we’re nymphomaniacs. It’s the type of energy.

Chad Prevost (17:00.815)
right.

Nick McGowan (17:06.16)
But for us to be able to understand how different energy types and Enneagram types affect us or interact with us, we can feel everything. I believe we are the closest to the void where we can step on either side. My partner Stephanie, she’s a four or five and she can live in the void.

and go super deep and live just down in the depths of the ocean and come back whenever she’s ready. And sometimes it’s really difficult for people to be able to pull themselves back and people that are outside of us. Like you said, we can sometimes be as an angry four. We can sometimes turn into an eight. I’ve often thought of myself, that’s not where we disintegrate to, but I’ve thought of myself as having eight tendencies because both my mom and dad were eights. And when I learned about the N .E. Gramma, I was like,

Chad Prevost (17:57.391)
Nick McGowan (17:59.513)
That is why I get so heady with things and probably similar to you where you think that you have to think these ways, but in all reality, we have to feel these ways first. So for you to get to the point where you’re at with the business that you have with your wife and for you to feel like this is the calling that you’ve had, that’s a big thing. And that’s really one of the main things that we talk about on this show as one of the co -founders and head of disruption for choose your calling.

It’s about purpose work and it’s about actually knowing what your calling is, but actively choosing it. And you literally were in that spot where you got to choose it because you’re like, this doesn’t feel right. And as a four, can, we can feel when something’s off, but in the systems that we’re involved in, we feel like we have to go do those things. And I think for the most part, we can all kind of put our face on and go do the damn thing. But if it’s not actually the right thing for

Chad Prevost (18:28.366)
Mm -hmm.

Nick McGowan (18:57.806)
then you’re hurting yourself, but it can be difficult to be able to pull yourself out of that and kind of get on the path you needed to. So talk with us a bit about that angle where you actually went, this doesn’t feel right, ooh, this feels great, and being able to actually go down that path.

Chad Prevost (19:13.336)
Okay, that’s a great, great question.

Let’s see, to tiny bit back up, because I have an immediate answer, but to your wife, whether it’s of being a four wing five, I don’t know, but yes, that withdrawing stance of the four and the five have a withdrawing stance at times from the world. I’ve been through this cycle and pattern enough times to finally stop

but I’ll get this intense, it’ll be an intellectual and an emotional combo of I’ll have this intense desire to write something powerful. you know, it could be a book of poetry, but it’s also been other book projects. And I’ll do this with drawing where I’m just like, everybody leave me alone so I can go deep and write this profound thing

But then you’ve done the thing and you come up for air and you’re like, hey world, here’s this thing that I’ve been working on that I wanna share with everybody because it’s amazing. And there’s no one around because you’ve been withdrawing from everyone. And so I have been through that cycle a few times. in the, so as a professor, there was this natural platform, a natural audience always there.

You just get to like go back and hey, there’s the students and you didn’t have to create an audience or as it were. And I’ve now kind of experienced a few times over this.

Chad Prevost (21:03.098)
Well, there’s a, there’s a whole half of my calling that was cut off and I didn’t always know how to engage with the world that way. And, you know, I would say even up to very recently, I have to talk about calling and soul and the, the blending of it all, like being on the second, the second mountain journey is, you know, if only it were so easy.

as to just say, am just leading with my soul. I am just going to listen to my call. And it just doesn’t matter what the ego is trying to say. Because if only it were, maybe, I don’t know, for some people they can’t, because the soul doesn’t care about the outcomes, right? The soul is like, go try this.

Nick McGowan (21:57.591)
Mm -hmm.

Chad Prevost (22:02.316)
And, you know, if it doesn’t work out, I don’t care. want to try this. And the ego is like, well, wait a minute, you know, like, can we let’s have a strategy. Let’s let’s understand the marketplace. And so there is, I think the the complicating factor is we do still need the ego. We need we need strategy. And but and

You know, I, the way that I really distinguish some of this, it’s a really helpful thing. It’s almost, I will say Nick, so the idea of like the difference between surrender and control and surrender is this almost embodied way of yielding and letting go and

That’s where I feel like I’m being in the stream of soulfulness and connecting to call. any sniff or hint of wanting to be in control of it, at least I can recognize how much the ego is present there at the time. So, but a really helpful…

It was a scary, scary moment. was almost a year ago to the day. I almost drowned. July 22nd. So the recording of this, I don’t know if I should date this, but the recording is July 12th. Almost a year ago to the day, I was in a paddle boarding incident on the Okohe River with my brother and a friend. And it was, were getting off and it was like the current was strong. And I was at first,

I mean, I had taken off my PFD because it had been such a chill, beautiful day, but it was like pretty high up. It was like neck deep and I was off my board and I just kind of was getting pulled down the current a little bit and my leash that my foot was connected to my leash, it started getting caught up in something beneath me and I was holding onto the board and…

Chad Prevost (24:21.966)
I began to realize that I was flagging. I was getting tired really fast. I wasn’t gonna be able to keep holding onto the board. that was the first time where I just said, help. But they weren’t gonna be able to get to me because of the power of the current between us. without detailing it all in excruciating detail,

Like there was a moment where I was like, well, I’m going under and I’m, I’m, I’m drowning this way, holding onto the board. I don’t know what to do. I could not reach down with the car. didn’t have enough, whatever, you know, strength breath to get to the Velcro leash and free myself. So in desperation and knowing there wasn’t anything else to do, I let go of the board and,

just let myself go with the current of the river. And even then I was still beginning to, I was bobbing up and down and like underneath the water coming back up, it was going up my nose. was like, my body was fighting with everything it had instinctually. And as I was looking up at the sky, I was beginning to, I was freaked out, but I was also

Okay, so this could really be it. These are your last maybe moments of consciousness. And the things that were flashing through my mind were like, you wasted so much time being anxious about things you shouldn’t have worried about. You shouldn’t have worried about your oldest son so much. You wasted so much time being afraid to speak in front of groups.

You lived in all this fear and you shouldn’t have denied your calling. You should have been writing. Like these thoughts were like flashing through my mind. then something happened that had zero control that I did or anybody else. My leash just snapped.

Nick McGowan (26:37.576)
Awesome.

Chad Prevost (26:38.348)
It just, it broke off my board and I just kind of began to float a little bit up and I couldn’t believe it. And I still had to swim and my feet were so exhausted. My shoes were the only thing, my shoes and my bathing suit were the only thing that everything else, my ring, everything had just, you know, was gone. The board was gone. I swam to the side and my, animal body,

was just doing this breathing that I couldn’t even believe. Like it just sounded like, it just sounded like, and it just went on and on and on me trying to catch my breath. And I remember looking up at the sky and thinking everything that happens next is a second chance. That how ordinary and how completely possible I could have just drowned right there.

But Nick, so even with that said, even with that experience of, you know, that idea that it really connects with if I share this in a group at times, I will just start crying. But it was that holding on that, you know, that holding on, holding on to whatever it is that we think we can control. And then the really embodied feeling of surrendering to the current

really will stick with me forever. I was gonna say, even with that said, life kind of returns to normal, right? And it’s like, you’re like, yeah, huh, know, a while ago I almost drowned. Well, you know, the bills are due and the mortgage is due and you know, you, and so I think to connect it back to the very thing we were saying is like, I was really,

really ready. I’ve been doing intentional work all year long, but nothing was quite sticking in a real resonant way until I went on this, what David White specifically called a pilgrimage. You know, we’re all on a pilgrimage, I would hope. Even if we feel lost, you don’t always know where you’re going. In fact, pilgrimages, you’re lost a lot.

Chad Prevost (29:03.152)
But he, you know, to not only experience the actual retreat and how great that was to be in a community of about 40 other people on this, you know, experiencing these places, but to actually see someone like a David White lead as a poet and to be a poet who is, who didn’t worry about where all his publications were.

and who’s writing poetry that speaks to other people’s needs in the soulful way that attracts people who are, everyone’s suffering and we’re hungry for something. And for him to lead in the authenticity of being a poet, being masterful as a storyteller. And he goes into

businesses and he talks about soul. So like I was just so doubly convicted in a really a way that I was ready for because I haven’t written poetry since 2014, literally a decade of casting off that self, shoving it into the shadows and almost like in the shame of

Nick McGowan (30:30.184)
Hmm.

Chad Prevost (30:31.78)
You thought you were gonna be this like big time poet, like how naive and how pretentious sort of, you know? And then the soul part is like saying, it’s like it’s asking to be integrated, that shadow side, right? You can stay grounded and be none.

Don’t be pretentious, be humorous, right? Cause nobody does know the answers. Hold some things lightly, but lead. And so I think maybe this is, talked about the withdrawing thing that I’ve done. What I am so ready to embark on now is really move the energy that feels really right. than like, I do feel called to write the next, a next

Nick McGowan (31:01.362)
Yeah.

Chad Prevost (31:30.458)
but it’s like, it’s not just, that’s not just it. It’s not just this withdrawal. It is more of this like, I want to share, I know there’s a need and I am ready to facilitate deeper learning experiences for others. So that’s what I’m stepping into even more.

Nick McGowan (31:51.826)
What a weird thing when you’re about to die and you have all of that, that goes through you. And some people listening to this podcast may have experienced that. Others may have not ever experienced anything close to it, but even having something like that. then literally days or a week later, and you’re like, shit, I got to pay the bills. Now we got to do this. What are we going to do for dinner? Like what dumb things, but what a beautiful human thing that is where you can almost bounce

I believe that that trauma is still living in your cells unless you process through it because the body keeps the score as Bessel has said. But being able to understand that there are things that you can either let go of and surrender to, or that you can try to control. When I hear that from you or from anybody or even from myself, when I’m trying to control something, it’s a sense of wanting to know that I have it, that I can handle the

Chad Prevost (32:28.195)
Mm -hmm. Mm

Nick McGowan (32:50.642)
when in all reality, the thing that you needed to do was actually let go. You’re still gonna bob, you’re gonna go up and down, but being able to actually just let go, it doesn’t mean that you release yourself from everything where it’s like, sometimes people can say, well, if I just let go of everything, then how am gonna pay the bills? How am I gonna do this? How am I gonna do that? Like, you don’t really know. I don’t have that answer. You clearly don’t. But you will figure it out as you go. Something that has

Chad Prevost (32:55.918)
Mmm.

Nick McGowan (33:18.641)
Convicted me over the past. Let’s say year or so is the shoulds of life life should look a certain way I Should be at this stage of my life at this age. I should do this I should do that I shouldn’t or what have you and that’s a bunch of bullshit Because it doesn’t actually work out that way when you can have that sense of balance where you can control the things you can control that are within your energetics and then there are the things that you just need to let go and surrender

That’s really the beauty of life. And for you to be able to get to that and through that and through that challenging chapter to now see you are ready right now. You weren’t ready two years ago. You weren’t ready 2015 when you, you know, maybe a year after you push the poetry to the side. And I think that’s a big thing for people to understand is like, even if you’re not fully ready right now, that’s okay. You shouldn’t push yourself or pressure yourself to be ready for something.

where once you kind of step back and allow life to work the way it’s supposed to, and it’s going to, the suppose is how it’s going to plan itself out and work itself out. Now, you’re in a spot where you and your wife have the business and you guys have gotten burnt out from different things, but it sounds like you’ve also gotten to the point where you’ve seen all that, you’ve experienced all those things to have the perspective of, now it actually, I can feel this differently on this side because you had those perspectives.

In the time that we have left, talk a few minutes about what it is that you guys are doing and the work that you’re

Chad Prevost (34:53.872)
Well, yeah, well, to your point, too, it’s like you can’t skip the first mountain to just go straight to the second mountain. sometimes we’ll occasionally work with someone, we’ll have a client perhaps who is like, you actually do have to have an ego to be able to break free from an ego. And there is this concept with the Enneagram called ego strengthening. There’s some people who

so traumatized for long periods of time that they actually just don’t even have a clear personality. And you have to like really work on finding that groundedness in the first place. yeah, so I think, you know, we need to find the emptiness of the first mountain before we can go, yeah, it’s just an endless parade of shoulds, you know.

The work we do is in transformation. We’ve been doing a lot of coaching work. I don’t know if it’s worth going, but we’re pivoting in a couple of different directions where Shelley is moving into developing an AI, developing a really compelling AI assist who, because in some ways,

Not only is it where the future is going, it’s if it can aid and like improve the outcomes that people who engage with us get, then it can be fascinating and an exciting, crazy territory. I am my lane is really continuing the the one to one coaching and the workshops and the retreat experiences.

Nick McGowan (36:46.812)
Nice. So the people that you work with and just the experiences that you’ve had out of all the things you’ve gone through and that you’ve intellectualized but also gotten into your, somatically into your body, what’s that piece of advice you’d give to somebody that’s on their path towards self

Chad Prevost (37:07.514)
Well, hmm. I mean, you can’t think your way. can’t think like you can’t read your way through a bunch of self -help books. And because you can speak the language, know it, you do have to have practices. You really do need, you have to still yourself. And so overall, I mean, in a word, I would just say, be receptive, be open.

you know, this having resistance and thinking that you’re like, you, sort of have it figured out or scoffing at the silliness of it is just a sign, that there’s something that’s knocking, but you’re pushing it unconsciously, perhaps subconsciously away for whatever defended reasons that you may need to do at this time in your life. inevitably.

We come up against struggle and suffering and setbacks and we’re confronted with, is this still working for us? And most people end up in one form or another just insisting upon it and practicing the swing they’ve always known. But some people begin to yield and open up and then it doesn’t like make your life perfect as James Hollis says,

He actually in his humility, you James Hollis has written like 19 books on the midlife passage and he’s like, but I do promise you it’ll make life more interesting. Which is a pretty humble thing to say, but I yeah.

Nick McGowan (38:47.13)
Yeah, it’s an understatement.

man, well that’s awesome. I appreciate that advice. And it’s been awesome having you on. I’m sure we could just keep going. But before I let you go, where can people find you and where can they connect with

Chad Prevost (39:03.695)
Yeah!

Chad Prevost (39:08.218)
Well, they can find us a big self school and I think a really helpful book that could speak to people as well as really elucidate this Enneagram thing for them is my book Shock Point, The Enneagram and Burnout and Stress. It was written, you know, there is a section on burnout, there is a section on stress to contextualize it a little bit because sometimes we act out our personalities the most when we are

in stress and we’re, you know, we just kind of default to our old patterns. But this, you know, the book is there. You can find subtype information and a few other sources, but I do hammer down on the subtypes. And I think it’s a really democratic, like easily accessible book. So if they’re, you know, you want to add it to your Enneagram library or if you’re just a first time.

curious seeker check it out. I think you can get it for like half price on Amazon even right now. yeah, but bigselfschool .com is where to find us. real easy.

Nick McGowan (40:17.193)
Again, Chad, it’s been awesome to have you on here. I appreciate your time today. Thank

Chad Prevost (40:22.638)
It’s been an honor and a privilege and I’ve just, love your show, so cool and fun. And thanks for the great work you’re doing, Nick. It’s really, I’m sure your audience must really value it too.

Nick McGowan (40:40.141)
Thank you.