Going Against The Grain To Pursue Your Dreams With Matt Jones
“We can do hard things. One life, that’s it. So we need to be able to do the things that we need to do to get through it.
In this episode, Nick speaks with Matt Jones about how we, as children, have a tendency to do as we are told. We follow our parents’ dreams for us, and sometimes, even a comment from a teacher can pave a certain path.
Matt had been going through the motions of what his parents wanted for him – going to college to become an architect. The further Matt went along, the more he realized it didn’t feel right. It’s not what he wants to do. He went against the grain and started creating his own dreams and fulfilling them, but he hasn’t been happier.
About Matt Jones
For 23 years Matt has designed, built, and creatively solved problems for GE, now, he says he is “hanging my shingle” to offer those skills to others, building two businesses of his own.
DXM Solutions is centered on classic industrial design and experiential marketing
Highland Timbers, following his passion for woodworking and marrying it with design. His goal is to reinvent game night and bring families closer together to create memories.
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Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”
Nick McGowan
Hello and welcome to The Mindset and Self-mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. And on this show, my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, the lives that we lead on our path to self-mastery. So let’s not wait any longer. Let the games begin.
Nick McGowan
Hey, Matt, welcome to the show, Matt. How you doing?
Matt Jones
Hey, man, I’m doing all right, Nick. How you doing?
Nick McGowan
I’m great. I’m excited to have you on. I’ve. We’ve talked for a little while about getting you on the show, but now you’re finally here, dude. So how does it feel to be on the show?
Matt Jones
Yeah, man, it’s good. I mean, like you said, we’ve been we’ve been talking for months about this. And, you know, I’m I’m glad to be here. I’m glad you invited me on and happy to share any of my journey. And if it helps somebody else, great. And if not, they can sit and point and laugh, you know? So that’s where I look at it.
Nick McGowan
Yeah, that’s kind of smart. I’m sure there are people that listen to some of the shit that I say where they’re like, Oh, that was intelligent. And there are probably other people that are like, What the fuck is wrong with that guy? And that’s fine. You can sit there, point, laugh. That’s totally cool. But man, I want to give a little bit context here because you and I have a little bit of an interesting story in the sense that we I think I reached out to you about some conference like years ago, just trying to sell.
Nick McGowan
Honestly, you worked with a giant company. Can I name the name of the company you call that?
Matt Jones
Yeah, that’s fine with me.
Nick McGowan
Totally good. So G.E. is going after G.E. and trying to figure out a way into it. You and I connected, and I. I think we just started shooting the shit about something through LinkedIn, and I was like, This dude is cool. Like, there are certain people I meet that are like, Fuck you, you’re a sales guy, like, but you don’t know who I am.
Nick McGowan
Like, I’m a pretty good guy like you. We should be friends. But you and I started talking and shooting the shit and, and it was interesting couple of years later when you ended up leaving and moving on to the journey you’re in now. So that’s I think really where our, our friendship started to really turn into a friendship, talking through stuff and and kind of going through it.
Nick McGowan
So I’m jumping in your story now, Matt, it’s your turn. So why don’t you tell us what you do for a living? And one thing that most people don’t know about you that’s kind of odd or a little weird.
Matt Jones
Well, I got all kinds of odd and weird stuff. So what I do for a living now. So I’ve got two businesses that I started a couple of months ago. One is DSM, which is design and experiential marketing solutions, and that’s just based off of what I did at GE for the last 23 years. So I was a product designer and then got into the trade show and event world and hosting those kind of things.
Matt Jones
And so now my goal with DSM is to help smaller businesses achieve their goals and whether whether it’s a conference, whether it’s marketing, digital marketing or whatever, just kind of be a resource for them to really grow that experience. Because for me, the experience is everything, right? The experience is everything from how the phone is answered all the way to how you sell, what your storefronts is like, all that.
Matt Jones
Um, and then on the flip side, the other thing that I’m doing is my dad was a cabinetmaker. He was a self-employed cabinetmaker, and I grew up in a woodshop. I’ve always had a passion for furniture and making things out of wood and making things in general. And so I started Home Timbers, which kind of came about through COVID, uh, at the beginning of COVID.
Matt Jones
Uh, I’ve got two young children and I’ve got a ten, almost ten year old and a seven year old. And, you know, I used to be on the road a lot, and suddenly we all found ourselves in the house together. And I came across this game called Crocodile, and I was like, Yeah, that was kind of interesting. It was like a challenging thing to make, but it also looked like a fun game to play.
Matt Jones
And so I made I just went out to the wood shop one weekend and cobbled together this prototype of a crocodile board. And crocodile is a Canadian game. Think of curling, but on a tabletop surface. So a 30 inch diameter circle, you got these little round pucks and you’re flicking them into the hole and you’re in order for your opponent to score their puck, they have to touch one of your pucks that’s on the board and you go back and forth.
Matt Jones
And so I made this game and I’m like, Man, this is really fun. And my family loved it. Uh, the rest of the rest of our, you know, bubble, our COVID bubble, they enjoyed it. And I started making these games and I was talking with my wife one day. I was like, You know, I think there’s really something here.
Matt Jones
It’s like, this game is a lot of fun. It just has an awareness problem. And I said, You know what? What can I do to help raise that? So that’s kind of one thing that’s in my head. But then the other part of it was I got to make something right. And, and I found that my joy comes in making things and being in the shop and kind of exploring that.
Matt Jones
And so as I started wrapping all this into a bundle, I started thinking about and this is really about family and this is about making those moments that matter, right? Because we’re only going to go through this life one time and we only have a certain period of time in order to do that. And, you know, a lot of us are in these arenas.
Matt Jones
They’re we’re in these workplaces, we’re in these situations, whatever they air. And we’re not able to give our best selves. Right. And I’m now looking at this. This is a way for me to create a situation that I can put out my best self for my family and what I want to do and where I want them to be.
Matt Jones
And set an example really, you know, for what they can do as they grow in and become contributing members of society and adults. Right. So that’s that’s kind of how I look at that. You know, along the way I’ve picked up some other games that I’ve made horse racing games. So I got that out for Derby and, and I’ve got some other games that are, that are coming soon.
Matt Jones
Um, so things that you didn’t know about me or you might not know about me, um, so there’s a whole, whole long list, but I’ll, I’ll just start since I gave you two businesses, I’ll give you two. Uh, one. I am Santa Claus.
Nick McGowan
That you are? Yes.
Matt Jones
I portray Santa Claus in the holiday season. I get a big kick out of that with the kids. So that’s that’s a lot of fun for me. And then the other thing, which I think back on now that I think probably spawned a little bit of, uh, Highland Timbers where I’m at now with, with the, with the woodworking and the game business is I was a billiard mechanic and you’re like, you’re like, what to build billiard mechanic.
Matt Jones
So, so a very good friend of mine growing up, his family had a, uh, pool table shop that made custom billiard tables and pool tables. And after I, you know, learned a bunch of stuff from, from my dad and his cabinet shop, you know, as happens, uh, fathers and sons have a, have a falling out of sorts or whatever.
Matt Jones
They decide that they can’t work together in whatever way. And, you know, I took I took my tool bag and I went to my buddy and he hired me there. His dad hired me to work in a shop. And so I spent evenings, weekends and summers in my high school years and then on into college building pool tables and, you know, really, you know, had a had a really good time doing that, learned a lot more and a lot about life, you know, a couple of crazy guys that worked there, um, and just had just had a really good time.
Matt Jones
So those are, those are probably the two, two things that are, you know, PG enough rated that I can, I can put them on here and, uh, and go from there.
Nick McGowan
Oh, yeah. Well, you, you have family that needs to listen to. So I guess if there are things that your second family should know about, then maybe they should.
Matt Jones
Uh, it’s.
Nick McGowan
Clearly getting everybody clearly getting. Well, we joke. We joke. Well, that’s good stuff. So, yeah, when you said a a pool table. Yeah, basically what I heard was a pool doctor. I fix pool tables.
Matt Jones
Yeah, no, I think I fixed pool tables. You know, we build, install pool tables and and, uh, you know, it was really my first customer interaction, right? So when I was with my dad, he was the one who did all the face to face interactions with the customer. And, you know, suddenly here I am, you know, a team guy going out with another guy to install pool tables and somebody at home.
Matt Jones
And, you know, it was kind of a you know, the guy’s name was Bob that I was mostly out there with, right? Bob usually handled most of the customer interaction, but there were a lot of times where I had to write or Bob would, you know, have to go, you know, engineer something out of the truck. Right. And I’d have to go go talk with with the customer and make sure that they, you know, one didn’t walk out to the truck, but to, you know, make sure everything was all right, you know, and that they were that they were being handled right.
Matt Jones
And so that really kind of gave me a taste for, you know, client interaction and customer interaction. So, um, and so I think that, you know, that experience eventually kind of led me, you know, gave me some of these, these background pieces to where I am now, today. So oh.
Nick McGowan
Man. Makes total sense. The fact that you were building this stuff with your dad, starting with that and then going to another company that was still building things, it almost seems like it was sort of inevitable that you were going to get back to that, like you were going to build things with your hands again.
Matt Jones
Yeah, it really is. Because I mean, I think I even think about what I went to school for, right? I went I went to school to be an industrial designer. Um, now I found that kind of a roundabout way. Um, I actually started out as an architect, and I went to the University of Cincinnati to start architecture. Um, mostly because I grew up in a, in a fairly remote, remote rural area of Ohio.
Matt Jones
Um, and, you know, I was really one of the first ones in my family to go to college. So my parents had not been to college. Their experience with college, college and college admissions, all of that was pretty limited. My, my older sister went, but she, you know, she still in education. I mean, she she became a dean and and the whole bit.
Matt Jones
And she’s super smart. And she really took the ball and ran with all of that on her own. Right. Um, I probably didn’t run as far as much with it as what I could write. So, um, yeah, you know, so, but, uh, but you know, basically what it, what it came down to is my, my dad was a cabinetmaker and my mom was an artist.
Matt Jones
I had my hands in both worlds. And my dad just look at me as German architect and I’m like, okay, you know, and, and, uh, yeah. So that was really my goal. And then I look at, okay, where’s the furthest point from home that I can get and still be in-state tuition? And so that led me to Cincinnati and, and University of Cincinnati, which happened to have an excellent architecture program and, and also a leading industrial design program.
Matt Jones
And so once I was there for architecture, I realized pretty quickly that this was not where I was meant to be. But I was in the right building. I just was in the wrong room and so I started hunting around. I found industrial design. And I remember call my call my old man and telling him and uh, so I.
Matt Jones
You’re making a mistake. The biggest mistake of your life. I don’t know. You know. And I said, Well, maybe I said, You know what? Here’s the thing. I’m paying for this. Whether I’m paying for it now or I’m paying it forward in student loans afterwards, it’s my choice. Right. And I make I’m making this decision because I think it’s the right one.
Matt Jones
And I made the switch. And, you know, I had a great, great career in that. And, you know, couple of years after I’d been out and I paid all my student loans off and, you know, was, was living debt free. Uh, yeah. I remember my dad coming back to me because, you know, I remember telling him you made a mistake.
Matt Jones
He goes, uh, I was wrong as you, you, you did well. And so, yeah, that meant a lot, right? So.
Nick McGowan
But that’s a, that’s something I think we need to get into a bit without knowing who your dad is. And the audience has no idea any more than what you’ve already said. So if that meant a lot to you, I think for the most part, we all kind of experience that. We, no matter how we look at our parents or the respect level or lack of respect or whatever, I think we all at one point in time wanted them to affirm us and to be proud of us and be happy.
Nick McGowan
There are certain parents that are just awesome at that and there are some that are too much where they’re just too fucking much. But then there are others that don’t say it enough and go, Well, fuck it, you know I love you. It’s like, now you don’t unless you actually say it and you do it. So in that moment, did you feel kind of a fucking wall, man?
Nick McGowan
I fucking told you, or is it more of a. I’m glad.
Matt Jones
You know, there was probably a little bit of both. I mean, one I mean.
Nick McGowan
Thank you for your honesty.
Matt Jones
Yeah. Uh, who doesn’t like to be right? Right. I mean, we all like to be right. Um, but at the same point in time, it’s. It’s also humbling to, uh, to see someone you care about come back to you and admit that they. That they didn’t know what was the best thing in that situation. And I think what’s interesting is I remember I’m talking with somebody one time and they and I’m going to try not to butcher this quote, but basically they said parents can only see how far you can fly by, how far their wings have taken them.
Matt Jones
And, you know, that kind of stuck with me. I was like, that’s interesting. Right. Is is if their wings only took them to here, they they can’t see over that next horizon. Right? So as I sit here and think through parenting and and raising adults, right. Because I’m not as my friend says, we’re not raising children. If we were raising children, we’d be done already.
Matt Jones
We’re raising adults. As I think through that, it’s really about giving our children the proper tools so that they can make those decisions and those those great decisions that are right for them, that allow them to soar further than what we ever could on the wings we had. Right. And so that’s kind of how I try to think through these things as far as parenting, which, by the way, I mean, nobody gives you a book.
Matt Jones
I mean, all the books out there are bullshit. We’re all just making it up as we go along. I mean, I don’t I don’t care what anybody says.
Nick McGowan
I think that just life in general.
Matt Jones
Well, that’s true, too, but but parenting especially I mean, it’s, it’s it’s an interesting, interesting road for sure. So, but, uh.
Nick McGowan
Yeah, I. Yeah, I appreciate that. So I don’t have kids, but I appreciate that perspective because there are certain times where I’ve had conversations with my own parents where I’m like, Look, Mom, sorry I was an asshole and here’s why I was an asshole and how I’ve learned from that. There was also there was a moment when I was younger that my dad called different milestones and he straight up told me, this is what’s going to happen at these things.
Nick McGowan
And each of those as, fuck it happened. I expect that at some point I’ll have kids. I hope at some point I have kids and I hope that same thing happens because I remember my dad telling me at 18, you’re going to think I’m a fucking idiot and I have no idea about anything. At 21, you’re going to be like, Old man’s an idiot.
Nick McGowan
Beam I know a couple of things. He’s still an asshole. Oh, fuck that guy. And then 25, you’re going to be like, Oh, man, no, some things, man. But, you know, I’m in. I’m invincible. I can do whatever the fuck I want. 30. He’s going to roll around you. You’re like, Yo, dude, I am sorry. I don’t know all the things I could really use your help.
Nick McGowan
Every fuckin milestone hit, I was like, Yo, Pop, there I am, you know? And I think some of that comes from just saying, well, go out and do the things that you feel like you want to go do and go do that like, I know from my perspective that he didn’t try to hold me to where he was because he was like, You can go do whatever the fuck you want.
Nick McGowan
And it sounds like your dad realized after you’re like, Hey, you can actually do that. So now with your kids and you’ve got young kids and understanding from that perspective that you’re like, Okay, I’ve gotten as far as I’ve gotten and your journey still going, but that you don’t want to hold them back because one of your kids could be, I don’t know, the next Michael Jordan or anything that you haven’t gotten to that level.
Nick McGowan
So how do you manage that with little kids and not, you know, like understanding their brains are still forming, you know?
Matt Jones
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s it’s certainly tough, right? I mean, we’re my wife and I talk a lot about about tools, right? Making sure that we give the kids the right tools so that they can succeed in what they’re doing. Um, you know, something that came up this year, my daughter has dyslexia. My wife and I suspected it, but we weren’t sure if, you know, we finally took her and got her testing.
Matt Jones
You know, COVID was COVID was kind of a weird thing. You know, they were they were at home learning. And we actually had hired a retired teacher to come in and work with both of our kids for that, because both my wife and I were, you know, full time employed at that time. Right. And just banging at it.
Matt Jones
And we had done that the first three months. You know, when COVID first hit before summer, we did that swap and back and forth and we both watch at each other at the end of that realized we’re not teachers for a reason, we’re parents, you know, and and so we went out and found a friend of ours who who knew some retired teachers.
Matt Jones
And he recommended one. And she came in and she was great. And she’s been like a part of the family. And but anyhow, once we once the kids got back into school, um, my daughter, who’s seven now, who was six at the time, she started hating school and, you know, just was really upset about it every day and, and not being able to read and not being able to understand as much as what was going on.
Matt Jones
So we took her and got her tested and, and sure enough, she, you know, she came up being dyslexic or having dyslexia. And, you know, I remember talking with the with the gentleman about it, and there were several things that I learned. One was that like one in five people exhibit some level of dyslexia. So that’s 20% of the population, you know, is somewhere on the sliding scale.
Matt Jones
And and then the other thing, he’s like, well, he goes on that sliding scale. You know, there are some people who the Rhodes there, it just has some big potholes or some other people that, you know, the road is there, but it’s a gravel road. And some people it’s a it’s a wild trail going through the woods. He goes, Now, here’s the good and the bad, because your daughter’s road isn’t even it hasn’t even been carved out of the woods yet.
Matt Jones
He goes, and that sounds overwhelming. But she hasn’t learned any of the bad habits yet that so many people with dyslexia pick up to try to get through some of these other things, you know? So she’s starting with a blank slate of really learning and learning how best to best ways to learn for her with dyslexia. And, um, and so my wife and I talk and they’re just so happens to be a school that specializes in, uh, you know, educating for folks with dyslexia and other learning or in specialties right at the end of our street.
Matt Jones
I mean, I can walk my daughter to school, I can go pick her up. And I honestly, we didn’t even know it was there. I mean, we knew the school was there, but we didn’t know what really anything about it. Right. We just knew it was a private school. And and so, you know, after very little deliberation, we both were just like, yep, she’s going to she’s going to go to go to DePaul.
Matt Jones
And so we pulled her out of the public school and moved her right over there. And and and it’s been great. It’s been a great experience for her. Um, you know, they do a lot of things that I think would benefit all education personally. Um, you know, and I’ve, I’ve kind of, if you’re catching me on my, my latest soapbox, so, you know, if you don’t like it, you can shut me down.
Matt Jones
But, you know, one of the, one of the things that I’ve I’ve been really questioning is the industrialized education process. Right. And it and it really is geared towards, um, I don’t want to say keeping everybody at one level, but it’s the, unless you’re on the extremes, you’re not really getting any extra help on anything. Right? And so she was just kind of wallowing there, you know, and it really made us think about some different things.
Matt Jones
And then with her new school, they also do compassion projects and and, you know, some other things. And, you know, my wife, I go, you know, went to their compassion program, which happened to be right around Christmas time. I was like, and it’s really amazing, you know, and each grade took something on hers was her class took on sea turtles, right?
Matt Jones
So they adopted sea turtles and they raised they made ornaments and raised money to be able to to adopt sea turtles. And I, I was just like, that’s pretty awesome. Um, you know, I’m also, I’m here in Kentucky, so I don’t know if you remember last October when the tornadoes came through down in western Kentucky, but the, the seventh graders, um, you know, they pivoted and I hate that word.
Matt Jones
They, they, you know, but they, they had something else in mind and that happened. And they were like, you know what we need to raise money for for the tornado victims. Right. And so they changed they changed their their whole program to do that. And then the student council did that. And I just I just kind of looked at that whole program.
Matt Jones
I was like, man, that’s that’s pretty amazing, right? What they what they’re doing there. And I think it’s a great a great education. Each individual student gets a personalized education plan. And, you know, it’s a lot smaller classes. I mean, I honestly I’d love to see I’d love to see that kind of model, um, you know, be a lot broader.
Matt Jones
But I’d also oh, I’d love to see teachers get paid what they’re worth because they’re probably one of the, if not the most undervalued workforce people out there. There’s certainly in the top ranks of it. I mean, so I think, you know, it’s kind of it’s kind of where I’m at, you know. So, yeah.
Nick McGowan
The education system is a it’s an interesting topic to get into because I think as with COVID, that kind of started a little bit of an awakening for people with kids without kids just having conversations with themselves or people that are fucking stuck in their house of them. Like, I have to look at you constantly now and they have to look at themselves and have those conversations.
Nick McGowan
And there’s been a lot of conversations. I’ve had an affair, you know, shooting the shit with bourbon and talking about things and getting in where people have kids and all. So I’m glad we’re talking about this now because I think the educational system in certain ways didn’t really do us any good. It basically creates factory workers and says, Well, you do these things because that’s how you fucking do these things, and that’s it.
Nick McGowan
And I remember being a kid that would always ask why, and they’d be like, Because you need to shut your mouth. That’s why I’m like, Well, that doesn’t fucking make any sense. And that whole Prussian system I agree with you needs to go away. We need to do something different with it. I’m hoping that there’s some of that that’s coming out of what has happened over the past year or two years.
Nick McGowan
So even over the next five, ten, 15 years, we should hopefully see something. But what do you think it would take to actually have change happen?
Matt Jones
Well, I mean, that’s a great question. What do I think it would take to make change in the education system? Um, I, I do think that if there’s, if there’s one benefit to what happened with COVID, as I think a lot of people became aware of, aware of this right now, I mean, that you look at that just in the workforce, right.
Matt Jones
Look at all of and I don’t want to use the word turmoil, but the upheaval, right. Of people leaving jobs, you know, myself included, um, uh, other other folks who, you know, didn’t give choices to leave a job. Um, you know, the workforce, uh, being servers and things like that where they’re, they’re not getting paid what they’re worth to do, what they’re doing.
Matt Jones
Um, you know, you look at all that and it’s like, okay, well, oh, that industrial education process that just geared people up towards the industrialized employment process later. Right. And so, so now I’m thinking it’s interesting, right? Because a lot of people, I think, woke up during, uh, COVID and, you know, I mean, there’s been a huge surge in entrepreneurs and new business startups and I’ll be interested to see, you know, how that really translated translates in the education process as well, right?
Matt Jones
If there, if there’s that ability to change and shift, um, you know, another thing that I think is, is horribly missing and he is the a, you know, the, the trade programs in school, right where when I grew up in high school there were trade programs and now there was a stigma against kind of those kids that got on the bus and went to the trade programs.
Matt Jones
Looking back now, I mean, there should be no stigma on those kids ever, right? I mean, those are those are the people that are out there building houses, um, putting electric in plumbing, taking care of your sewers. I mean, all of those things that happened within those trade schools taking care of your cars, right? All of that. Those are the things that keep society rolling.
Matt Jones
And, you know, not every kid is is going to be college material. And that’s fine, right? I mean, my wife and I talked about all the time, I mean, we’re okay if one of our kids decides not to go to college. I hope that they do, because I think it’s a wonderful experience. But if they decide to go do something else, I just hope that we give them the tools that they need to be successful at whatever that is.
Matt Jones
Right. Um, so it, you know, what is it going to take for that education system to change? I, I really don’t know. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s all this stuff that’s like just now sitting in my head. But I do sit there and think that it’s, that it’s broken and it needs fixing, you know? And I think about what it costs to go to college now these days.
Matt Jones
I mean, I remember right, you know, I’m a little older, but I remember, right. My first check, the first semester of first quarter of college, it was like $732 for a quarter. And that was you know, that was 19 credit hours. By the time I graduated. It was a whole lot more than that. Um, and now, uh, you know, about nine years ago, uh, a bunch of my college buddies, we all got together, the last one of us turned 40, and we got together in Cincinnati and went to a, a Reds game and, uh, you know, got together and we went and hit all of our old bars that we used to go drinking at.
Matt Jones
And we were walking around campus, which, uh, University of Cincinnati campus is just blown up. I mean, the difference between what it is now versus what it was when we went to school there, it’s, it’s unrecognizable. And we were like, Huh? For shits and giggles. I wonder what, you know, cost of education is on. We looked it up and it was like $45,000 a year and we’re like, oh, well, surely that’s out of state tuition, you know?
Matt Jones
And then were like looking at it like, Oh no, that’s, that’s in-state. I was like, how does how does anybody afford, you know, to go to school? I mean, I went to school. I started it took me a little while longer to get through school, too. But, you know, I started out in architecture, which was a six year program.
Matt Jones
Um, I then, you know, halfway through the year moved over to Industrial Design, which was a five year program. I still graduated in six years, you know, so I took that first year and kind of did whatever I want. But, um, you know, industrial design, I made it through in five years, but, you know, I’m sitting there thinking, wait six years.
Matt Jones
You know, if you were six years now at 45,000 a year, you know, that’s over 240000 hours. How is that even sustainable, uh, for you to make the kind of money to be able to pay that back, right? Which then leads right back into that industrialized employment situation where you’re, you know, I remember when I started that year and there were all these old college guys, you know, that had been around the block.
Matt Jones
They’re all old industrial designers, and they were all getting ready to retire. And they all kept talking about, you know, the golden handcuffs and all this. And I’m like, what are the golden handcuffs? I didn’t really understand the golden icons. And it’s like they’re like, well, once you’re in long enough, you understand that, you know, you’re just part of the grind.
Matt Jones
And but they got you, you know, if you leave, you lose all these things. And I’m like, that doesn’t make any sense to me, you know? Cause I was like, in my head when I started, I was like, I was only going to be there, you know, a year or two. And then I was going to move on.
Matt Jones
Um, you know, of course, then it took 23 years for that to happen. But, um, but, you know, it’s, it’s interesting when you think through that, right? It’s like we’re creating these automated automations, right, in school and in employment and all that. And it’s like, I think now, you know, with this surge of entrepreneurs, uh, and the, the ability that you have as an individual to go out and start something and be passionate about it, you know, and that’s starting at a younger and younger age.
Matt Jones
I think there’s more ability for those kind of things to happen, and I’d like to see more of that focus. Uh, happening in, in the school, in the education system.
Nick McGowan
So yeah, I, it’s interesting with the entrepreneurs that have come out of all COVID because I think there’s a, there’s probably some people that are like, I fucking hate my job. I don’t want to be here. I’m going to go do this thing. And a lot of those people are almost like the gym people that go to the gym in January.
Nick McGowan
They’re like, Man, I swear I’m not going to be fat no more. And they get in there and they’re in the gym for like a day or a couple days. I think they’re still the character type that need to be able to take shit and you need to be able to deal with stuff that some people can’t. And I bring that up because I think there’s a certain level of running from problems that people just always do, and the educational system doesn’t really help us with that.
Nick McGowan
The educational system has also produced the people that are educators. They were in the same system. So to be able to step outside of that takes us actually stepping outside of that and continuing education. And with all of the education that or the all the information that’s out there in the world, there’s a lot and there’s a lot that can be too much for people.
Nick McGowan
And I think some people get hooked on to what is like the easy thing because they’re looking for that dopamine hit like, oh, well, covid’s here, I have to stay home. I fucking hate my job. I’m going to go do this thing. I’m going to go sell these things or I’m going to do whatever. I hope that that was the thing that helped people get through.
Nick McGowan
But I feel like for the most part there are people that were just running from their problems with that. I bring that up because you left. You were there for a long time, but you left in in the middle of the pandemic. And you now have two businesses that you’ve started. But I know you’re not one of those people.
Nick McGowan
So talk to us about that process that you went through and the mindset you had going, Well, fuck, I got a wife and kids and I got to do these things.
Matt Jones
Yeah. So I mean, there were, there were a lot of things that kind of kind of led to it. One I traveled a lot, uh, for, for my job. Uh, I mean, as you know, we spoke at the beginning, you know, we met through, through convention, right? And that’s what I did. I was out hitting the trade shows and doing events and all that.
Matt Jones
So I was on the road anywhere between 30 and 40%, sometimes more of the year. Um, and as my kids got older, I was a lot more unhappy with all of that, but I didn’t really realize that. And there were some other things that happened within the work environment as well. But I don’t really need to go into that.
Matt Jones
I mean, it’s all everybody’s got work issues, right? Um, and and so I just kind of looked at, I remember sitting, you know, having dinner with, with the family because all of a sudden, you know, during COVID, we’re all home. We’re all home all the time. We’re having dinner together. Every night. I look around, I’m like, and I actually like these these little tidbits that I that I helped make, you know, like, this is.
Matt Jones
This is fun. Like, um, I want to, you know, I want to figure something out to be able to spend more time with them. And, you know, I think one of the other things that came out of all this is every year, you know, I talk with I talk with my dad. I mean, I talk with a lot more often than every year.
Matt Jones
But every year he’d be like, And I can’t believe you made it another year. Right? And I’m like, What do you mean? He goes, So before he was a homebuilder and got into cabinet making, he had been a Sears salesperson. And, you know, back then that was a good, you know, good job. Right. And he just was like, you know what?
Matt Jones
After he was there for years, he realized it’s just not the thing for you. And I remember him telling me he was mad because we’re not we’re not employees, you know, we’re we’re owners. We’re we’re different kind of people. You know, we do things, we do things differently. We do things the way we want to do them or the way we expect to be done.
Matt Jones
And and I kept telling him, like loss. That’s the reason why I’ve been able to do the things and been happy is I was able to run my shop the way I felt it needed to be run for a long time. And when that all kind of shifted and changed, you know, I tried to mold into the into the new system and then I just realized, like, this is just not working.
Matt Jones
You know, it’s just not it’s not a good it’s not a good fit. And, you know, and so I made the decision that it was it was time to part ways and and try something else. And I took I took time off. You know, one of the things I spoke with a lot of a lot of friends, um, some of them retired, some of them, you know, varying ages.
Matt Jones
And they all said, hey, take some time, you know, figure out what you’re going to do. And yes, I took time off and I worked on our house. You know, I’ve always been hand in, you know, did get a bunch of remodeling on our house and, uh, redid my son’s room and really allowed me to clear my head.
Matt Jones
And it got me back to thinking, like, man, I really enjoy doing things with my hands. And, uh, but then I also feel like I’ve got all this other stuff going on in my head too. Like, you know, the design and the marketing and all this experiential stuff. And, you know, it’s like, how do I make sure I blend all this stuff together to make something?
Matt Jones
Because I want to I want to be able to be a force for good out in the world, right? I want to be able to help people achieve their goals. And so that really is kind of where I started, um, you know, with the design solutions, you know, I had a buddy who had moved to a new company.
Matt Jones
He reached out to me and they had some new product introductions and he needed some help with that because they were a company of engineers and manufacturing with no design sense. Right. And so he was like, Hey, Matt, I need I need your help, right? And so I help them out with with a project. And then that kind of led to some other things.
Matt Jones
And then, you know, really I started looking at the games and I’m like, That’s just fun. You know? I mean, like, who doesn’t like to play games, right? And so how do I get that out there? And, and so again, that’s just in its infancy and I’m just starting all that out. I partnered up with a guy who’s got an industrial shop and he’s helping me run the parks.
Matt Jones
Right. So there’s I mean, a lot of seeing. I started doing some of the stuff by hand and there’s a lot of seeing see work by hand. It took, you know, hours what I was doing it hours this machine can do in minutes and it just made it so much more efficient and effective, you know, for what we’re doing.
Matt Jones
And so yeah, that’s that’s kind of the route I’m taking that. And then yeah, I’m also taking commission furniture pieces, right. And so I’ve got, I’ve been lucky enough to get some connections up with people that needed, needed pieces and wanted something that was not something that they could get at a big box store. And, you know, they really wanted a custom piece that was special to them.
Matt Jones
And so, you know, that’s kind of where I’m taking that and, you know, helping helping people improve their home, their home life. Right. And that way when one piece of furniture at a time. So, um, so that that’s, that’s kind of where, where it is. I mean, my goal is I want I want to make sure that I’m helping people create moments that matter and that I’m giving them something that, you know, they’re going to pass on to their family.
Matt Jones
Right. I mean, I look at I look at so many of these pieces that I’m making and it’s like, hey, you’re your kid. You know, to steal a line off of another buddy of mine, like your kids are going to fight over this piece, right? So What’s it matter to you now if it’s another, you know, hundred bucks or a thousand bucks or whatever the case may be?
Matt Jones
Right. Your kids are going to remember this and they’re going to want it. You at a later date. And so that’s that’s kind of how I, I keep thinking through things, right? So, but, uh, you know, and it allows me to be home.
Nick McGowan
That’s cool. I keep hearing the word legacy.
Matt Jones
Legacy. Yeah.
Nick McGowan
Yeah. It allows you to be home and allows you to actually build that legacy and spend that time with your kids. And honestly, man, it took you actually stepping out and saying, hold up. I don’t know if this is right and taking those steps there. That’s that’s a big thing that a lot of people will think about, but they won’t ever actually act on it.
Nick McGowan
So is there any sort of advice you would give somebody that was going through that sort of space in time just to be able to get them over that hump?
Matt Jones
Yeah, well, it’s a you always have to be a certain amount of self-reflective, right? When you when you look at things and you know, it’s kind of like I, I think about this with my kids and the farmers market. So there’s a farmer’s market up the street, right? And I grew up one generation of farms. I knew where food came from and I wanted to make sure my kids knew where food came from.
Matt Jones
Right. And so we started going to the farmers market, you know, befriended a farmer. And, you know, we unfortunately never made it out to his farm before COVID hit and then he passed away. But, you know, kind of my intent was that we were going to get out there and kind of really see see that. And I feel the same way about work, right?
Matt Jones
Going into COVID, our kids, all they knew was that mommy and daddy left the house in the morning. Mommy owned her own business, but they didn’t really understand what that was. And Daddy went to an office and would fly away on an airplane and come back. And what kind of legacy is that leaving them about work and work ethic?
Matt Jones
Right. And so it really sort of make me think about what all of that is and knowing that my wife, who started her law practice ten years, almost 11 years ago, um, how happy she is and about what she’s able to do and build with that. And I was like, Oh man, I’m a grumpy old shit right now.
Matt Jones
Like, I want to make sure that I’m setting that same kind of example for our kids, right? So I want to make sure I’m producing something that they can see that work ethic and that passion and know that they can do those things too. Right? Because we were always telling our kids, you can do hard things. And that’s the one thing I’d say to anybody.
Matt Jones
We can do hard things. We’re only going around on this world, you know, one, one life, that’s it. And so we need to be able to do the things that we need to do to get through it. But we can do hard things and, you know, come out the other side. So that’s that’s that’s my that’s my little bit of advice.
Nick McGowan
I appreciate that and I think you’ve listened to the show too much because you know that at the end of this I’m going to ask you what’s that one piece of advice you’d give somebody on your path to self-mastery and you gave it before you asked the question? So thank you.
Matt Jones
All right. Well, then the other the other bit of advice I’ll give is you drink your bourbon ni drink your bourbon d.
Nick McGowan
That that’s a solid piece of advice, man. That is good stuff, dude. I appreciate you being on the show. It’s always good to talk to you, and I’m glad that we’re able to actually record this thing. Where can people connect with you? Where can they find the games?
Matt Jones
Yeah, so I’m I’m on Instagram so you can find me there at Highland Timbers. Uh, search that and then you can also find me under Matt Jones Z with a Z at the end that will also link up to my Instagram page. I’ve also got a Facebook page for Highland Timbers LLC. And, uh, and that’s it, you know, come, come find me there.
Matt Jones
If you’re interested in the game demand, I’d love to, uh, love to get some of that out. Share. Share those moments of matter with the rest of the world.
Nick McGowan
So that’s awesome. But again, thank you so much for being on the show today.
Matt Jones
Yeah. Hey, thanks, Nick. You take it easy.
Nick McGowan
Another great conversation on today’s episode of The Mindset and Self-mastery show. So what did you think of the show today? Love to hear your thoughts. Check out the Instagram or Facebook page.
Nick McGowan
To join the conversation. If you enjoyed the.
Nick McGowan
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Nick McGowan
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Nick McGowan
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Nick McGowan
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