Life Beyond The Edge Of Suicide And Depression With Mike D’Agostino

00:00:07:11 – 00:00:31:12
Nick McGowan
Hello and welcome to The Mindset and Self-mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. And on this show, my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us and the lives we lead on our path to self-mastery. Today on the show, we have Mike the casino decks for friends like you and me. DAX is creative who struggles with mental health for almost 30 years, and it led him to attempting suicide, too, with a rope around his neck.

00:00:31:12 – 00:00:50:06
Nick McGowan
He realized, This is not what I want in the story. Sense has been beautiful. I’m excited for you to hear it, and I think his story really resonates with more of us than will admit as we all nod in unison. So let’s not wait any longer. Let the games begin.

00:00:55:19 – 00:00:59:04
Nick McGowan
Hey, Mike, welcome to the show. I’m excited to have you on. How you doing today?

00:00:59:16 – 00:01:03:14
Mike D’Agostino
I’m doing very well. I’m very honored to be here. So thank you for having me.

00:01:03:22 – 00:01:27:09
Nick McGowan
Yeah, absolutely. I’m. I’m glad that you’re here, man. I know we chat every once in a while, but to give a little bit of context who Mike is, where Mike came from. I’ll leave that where Mike came from to him. But Mike and I have known each other for 20 ish years at this point. We were we were in a band together when we were just babies by babies, I mean like 1920 and 21, something like that.

00:01:27:12 – 00:01:45:00
Nick McGowan
I think we were just about legal to drink, which was just about how we got into a lot of trouble in the city of Philadelphia. So, yeah, there’s a little bit of context. Mike has gone through some stuff over the past year, year and a half, and I appreciate the story that he has and wanted to bring him on.

00:01:45:00 – 00:01:52:16
Nick McGowan
But Mike, I want you to give us some context who you are. But why don’t we start off with what do you do for a living and what’s one thing that people may not know about you?

00:01:53:11 – 00:02:07:22
Mike D’Agostino
I’m a reporting analyst for a small company that distributes cell phones and I mean, one thing that I’m very proud of is that I’m a poet, but not many people know this thing about me, so I take pride.

00:02:07:23 – 00:02:10:02
Nick McGowan
Yeah, well, you recently put out a book, right?

00:02:10:22 – 00:02:16:07
Mike D’Agostino
Yeah, that’s correct. I’m now a published author, something I always wanted to do, and I went straight for it.

00:02:16:16 – 00:02:30:22
Nick McGowan
That’s pretty big, man. I know you’ve kicked around that idea for a long time. Mike was actually the singer of the band that we were in. So had an incredible lyrics. And I think when I was 20 some years old, I remember saying, Hey, man, you should do some of this stuff, you know, publish these or do something with it.

00:02:30:22 – 00:02:39:23
Nick McGowan
So it’s awesome to see that you’ve done that, but do you want to get into a little bit of what led you to not only publish the book, but what happened maybe a year ago around this time?

00:02:41:01 – 00:03:09:00
Mike D’Agostino
Almost a year ago, I tried to commit suicide. I failed. And luckily it I started by trying to hang myself and got 25 minutes into it and just told myself, you’re not going to do this. And I was like, You’re, you’re, you’re surely right. I’m not going to do this. But I ended up that later that evening getting incredibly intoxicated and letting everybody I knew are no know what I did.

00:03:09:00 – 00:03:36:02
Mike D’Agostino
And unfortunately, it got me into a crisis center and I learned a lot about myself, especially that I’m bipolar and it turns out an alcoholic. And, you know, a lot of a lot of what’s going on in my life in the last year has been learning how to live with those two things. And it sounds like a downer, but it’s probably the best time I’ve had in my life.

00:03:36:21 – 00:03:57:14
Nick McGowan
Oh, that’s interesting to say that. Almost committing suicide and then understanding or realizing or I mean, the grips with have bipolar and alcoholism to say that that’s the best time of your life. I think we need to step back. We need to step back and give us some context of where you came from and how did you get to that point?

00:03:58:16 – 00:04:20:19
Mike D’Agostino
I’m a child of divorce, and I think I go back to when that divorce happened. I was dealing with a lot at that time, although I was a kid and I didn’t really take too much stock of it because I was too busy being a child. As I got older, I just realized how much of that situation led me down a very dark path.

00:04:21:04 – 00:04:48:01
Mike D’Agostino
I was a very depressed child. I was a depressed teenager. And and, you know, I just thought of it as, oh, I’m down sometimes, but sometimes I’m up, you know, and it’s great. I know how to deal with this. I just became so used to living that way. Up until that time when I tried to take my own life, I was living through misery, but just thinking this is normal, you know?

00:04:48:13 – 00:04:56:09
Mike D’Agostino
And and essentially it it got to the lowest, lowest point. And, you know, I’ve just been picking up myself from there.

00:04:56:13 – 00:05:14:22
Nick McGowan
Yeah, it’s got to be tough, man. I know. We all go through stuff now. We all go through really hard times, but we don’t really know what those hard times are for each other unless we actually open up about it. So I’m really thankful that you got super hammered after you tried to do that and messaged a bunch of us about that.

00:05:15:05 – 00:05:30:01
Nick McGowan
That’s important. And if we really break that down, we’re not telling people like, Hey, try to commit suicide, but don’t go full throttle with it and then just drink yourself silly and text a bunch of people that you did that thing. That was one of the best things that you could have done to be able to actually tell people like, Hey, this is what’s going on.

00:05:30:13 – 00:05:48:14
Nick McGowan
It’s funny because I’ve heard before that alcohol is a truth serum, and I think we all kind of experience that in different ways where like certain things will come out because your inhibitions are down and all of that. But it seems like that was kind of trying to get out of you. So did you feel better even getting that out?

00:05:50:00 – 00:06:11:06
Mike D’Agostino
Yeah, I tried multiple times in my life, but this was the one time like I always did it in private. I didn’t want anyone to know because it would be a sign of I failed at life if people knew that that’s where I was. But this time it was just after I got incredibly intoxicated, which is like, I’m I got to let everybody know.

00:06:11:07 – 00:06:32:08
Mike D’Agostino
Know. I mean, I was finally crying for help because I didn’t ask for help. And and in the past year, I’ve learned asking for help is a very good thing to do. It doesn’t mean I’m a failure. It just means how am I going to learn? How am I going to grow if I can’t ask for help? And this was my first cry for help and it put me on a very positive path.

00:06:32:08 – 00:06:57:23
Nick McGowan
I think of how many people are out there that going through stuff and they don’t want to go from that bridge to cross over to getting help. And there’s like that delta of difference where they’re like, I’m not sure I want to talk to people. How did you manage your mindset in that moment of, I have to get this out, I have to have the conversation and I’m talking about the day after when you were sobering up and you’re like, It’s out there and now I need to have these things.

00:06:58:09 – 00:07:25:04
Mike D’Agostino
Oh, I felt like utter crap the day after because I had, let’s be honest, 27 units of alcohol, which isn’t normal for anybody. So I won’t go into it. But 27 units of alcohol on the 27th month of February, after 27 years of drinking, I got really into the number 23, 27, by the way. So yeah, I felt like crap that time, but I had support.

00:07:25:22 – 00:07:52:13
Mike D’Agostino
Unfortunately, there are some people who feel like they don’t have anybody backing them but me. I when I let everybody know what had happened to me, I had all this support. You know, one of my best friends took me to the hospital, along with my wife. I, I would say they were understanding. It’s not really a hard I mean, not an easy thing to grasp knowing that somebody you love is trying to do such a terrible thing to themselves.

00:07:52:13 – 00:08:07:17
Mike D’Agostino
But, you know, just knowing I had that support really was the booster that I needed to go forward, especially when I got to the crisis center. And, you know, it was a crisis center, but one of the best weeks of my life, I got to say.

00:08:08:09 – 00:08:10:04
Nick McGowan
Why was that?

00:08:10:04 – 00:08:35:23
Mike D’Agostino
Because when I got in there, they said, you can go to your room now. Just take your time. Whenever, whenever you’re ready to join us. And I was like, no, I’m here to get help. So I did not stay in my room. I didn’t have anything really, but I just went straight for the recreation room and I met with the people who were there, talked to them about their stories and stuff.

00:08:36:05 – 00:08:57:05
Mike D’Agostino
I was just like I went to every class that they had. I participated. I was just like, I need to get better. I got a call from my sister. She was crying. She was just like, Do it, you need help. And I was just like, Yeah, I definitely need to get better. So I’ve been hyper focused on not getting myself to that low, low point again.

00:08:57:18 – 00:09:19:19
Mike D’Agostino
And you know, the people I met in the hospital, I, I got to know as friendly, I wouldn’t be friends with them outside because we’ve all gone through some things together. But, you know, some people are really, really at their lowest point. And me and maybe several other people just lifted a bunch of people up during that week.

00:09:20:02 – 00:09:30:12
Mike D’Agostino
And I felt bad I had to go, but I was just like, I can’t take you guys home with me. I have to leave and you guys will get better in your own time. But you know, that was my experience in the hospital in a nutshell.

00:09:31:10 – 00:09:54:19
Nick McGowan
Wow. So if we think from our perspective, the audience perspective, my perspective as the host, it’s easy for us to think, man, that must have been crazy to try to put ourselves into your shoes. But from your perspective of going through that, did you feel better than you thought? Maybe you could have? Like with the worst case scenario happening, you almost killing yourself and then having to be exposed and all of that.

00:09:54:23 – 00:09:57:20
Nick McGowan
Do you feel like it was as bad as your mind made it out to be?

00:09:58:02 – 00:10:20:13
Mike D’Agostino
I would not label anything that has happened to me as bad. I’ve looked at it in a positive light and I. Yeah, I’m sure you know me from before. I am not a positive person. I am one of the most pessimistic, sarcastic, sardonic people that I know. And this this light in my eyes. This light in my eyes is just just like, completely new.

00:10:20:13 – 00:10:41:19
Mike D’Agostino
And I’m getting used to it. When I was out of the hospital getting into recovery, I called you once and I was just, like, super excited about recovery. But I now know that I was super manic at that point, too, but I was excited. I mean, I was going down a new path and yeah, I have those ups and downs because I am bipolar.

00:10:42:16 – 00:10:49:15
Mike D’Agostino
You know, I wasn’t on the right meds yet, but now I’m on a nice little cocktail and, you know, doing doing fine.

00:10:50:21 – 00:11:08:03
Nick McGowan
So let’s jump ahead a little bit to today to where we’re at now. You’ve gone through a lot over the past year plus. What would you give advice wise to somebody who’s in that spot or to, you know, younger Michael, but what advice would you have given them?

00:11:09:10 – 00:11:29:16
Mike D’Agostino
Well, I mean, just to ask for help, you know, I felt like such an abject, abject failure for most of my life. And I thought asking for help was the signal that you can’t do this. It’s just important to know that there are people out there who are backing you.

00:11:30:14 – 00:11:36:00
Nick McGowan
So throughout the days, what do you do to be able to manage your mindset about this and not slip back into that?

00:11:36:00 – 00:12:02:13
Mike D’Agostino
I go to daily AA meetings. I brush up on DVT, which is called Dialectical Behavior Therapy. And that has been one of the things that has most changed my life for the better. And then I meditate and only recently in the past three months, I’ve taken up on prayer. And I’m not a religious person, but I’ve definitely become more spiritual as a result of AA.

00:12:02:21 – 00:12:24:23
Mike D’Agostino
So those things are very important to me. And, you know, somebody ought to tell me it’s a joke. I would be like, it’s worse for me. You know, if there was one time when I, I was taking CBD and so it was just like, that’s a placebo. It’s just like, but it’s working for me. I can’t, I don’t have time for you and your negativity.

00:12:24:23 – 00:12:26:18
Mike D’Agostino
That’s where I’m at right now.

00:12:27:15 – 00:12:34:16
Nick McGowan
On that note, how do you deal with the people that were as negative as you were in your previous life?

00:12:34:16 – 00:12:49:03
Mike D’Agostino
Well, currently I pray for them. But, you know, I just know where they were. I know I was there for quite a long time. I, I don’t have to put on their shoes. I wore out those shoes, you know.

00:12:50:18 – 00:13:05:08
Nick McGowan
Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s a tough thing to realize that everybody goes through a lot of stuff and we don’t really know what anybody’s going through or how they’re dealing with it unless they open up. A lot of people are afraid to be able to open up. So you’ve opened up and you’ve gone through a lot of this stuff.

00:13:05:08 – 00:13:15:15
Nick McGowan
Do you want to give us a little bit of background of what kind of got you to that spot? Were there any major things that happened in life that kind of twisted your road and and did you up here?

00:13:16:19 – 00:13:48:06
Mike D’Agostino
Yeah. Yeah, it it during a drinking was a huge part of it in conjunction with the undiagnosed bipolar disorder in the past, you know, since 2020, once I was stuck inside of my house, I mean, I’m still stuck inside of my house because of COVID. I thought that New Jersey was going to close the the liquor stores. So I grabbed three big bottles of liquor that I liked and I was just like, okay, I got to make these last.

00:13:48:06 – 00:14:20:03
Mike D’Agostino
But when I realized they weren’t closing the stores, I went, Well, I finished a big bottle every week. And that was if that wasn’t a sign that I have a problem, well, I totally ignored it, but it was the isolation, the drinking, the it just major depression. I, I loathed myself. It all just kept beating at me. I know early on in the pandemic, I it was like two weeks of being home by myself working.

00:14:20:03 – 00:14:43:03
Mike D’Agostino
I just broke down and cried because my mind was starting to think suicidal thoughts. And I was just like, I can’t do this for much longer because it’s only I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to hurt myself. But my mind was just like, maybe, maybe it’s time. So that was early on. And then I talked to a doctor.

00:14:43:03 – 00:15:00:05
Mike D’Agostino
They were like, You need to get therapy. I’m just like, okay. So I got therapy and I had a really terrible therapist for a while, but it it got me through. Yeah. I mean, I told him that I had suicidal ideation, so it was just like, but you don’t have them right now. It’s like now you’re like, okay, that’s good.

00:15:00:05 – 00:15:01:17
Mike D’Agostino
Like, that’s a red flag.

00:15:02:14 – 00:15:05:10
Nick McGowan
All the time out there, buddy. Yeah, we’re not moving along yet.

00:15:06:00 – 00:15:14:11
Mike D’Agostino
But all that just coalesced and came to head and led me to that dark, dark time.

00:15:14:20 – 00:15:32:03
Nick McGowan
And I’ve gotten past that dark time. But I know that those dark times are still in the shadows. Those are still there. This isn’t all. This episode isn’t about all doom and gloom and all of that. And like you said, you don’t see any of it as a bad thing. So let’s talk about the positive sides of this.

00:15:32:12 – 00:15:36:07
Nick McGowan
Now that you’re beyond that, where where are you at today?

00:15:37:01 – 00:16:08:08
Mike D’Agostino
Well, it’s totally the other side of the coin. I, I, I hated myself for so much, for so long, that now I am learning what it’s like to love myself, to value myself, to know that I have, I have purpose. You know, I, I create these things. I’m a poet. I write songs, I sing. I was doing that beforehand, but near the end it was very hard to do those things enjoyably because I was so I was dousing my brain in alcohol so much.

00:16:08:08 – 00:16:38:18
Mike D’Agostino
But now on the flip side, I used to read so much and I still read to this day, but all the knowledge that I had there when I took the alcohol away, it was just like, you know, all these things. And it was just like a whole burst of of knowledge just kind of came out. And from there I had a burst of creativity which led me to starting to record songs that I wrote long, long ago, just rerecording them for posterity.

00:16:39:04 – 00:16:52:09
Mike D’Agostino
I enjoy what I’m doing and creating the book, all these things. And that was during a very manic time, but it’s it’s kind of still going I enjoy creating things.

00:16:52:22 – 00:17:18:02
Nick McGowan
To hear that your creativity kind of bloomed from your recovery is huge because I think about us growing up and the amount of substances we put into ourselves to create music. You know, we’re going to get drunk and do other things and whatever and be able to write jams and work through that stuff. I think back to the days living in the city when we would go through that and we didn’t understand what we were doing to ourselves.

00:17:18:10 – 00:17:39:13
Nick McGowan
And those things tend to turn into coping mechanisms. So it’s wild to hear your story of your enlightenment because a lot of people don’t ever get to that point to be able to get through that stuff, to feel that enlightenment. So now that you’re in that creative space, how is that different than where you were before? Can you explain that a little bit for us?

00:17:41:01 – 00:18:13:22
Mike D’Agostino
Yeah, it’s different because my mind is is working on all cylinders now. Before I was, you know, deterred by the stuff I was putting inside my body, thinking that that was making me all the more prolific. But I have this I mean, untapped energy available at all times. I just pretty much don’t think but I just feel what is right, what I need to do when I’m when I’m creating things.

00:18:13:22 – 00:18:37:01
Mike D’Agostino
And and I didn’t have that feeling before because I was so numb. And now it’s just I feel so refreshed. And when I create something, it’s just like, what’s the next thing? What what am I doing next? And it and I create not because there’s going to be some reward at the end. It’s just because it’s the same way, like kids, just like coloring.

00:18:37:09 – 00:18:45:00
Mike D’Agostino
I like doing it because it’s going to make something and I can be proud of it, of my little babies or something.

00:18:45:00 – 00:19:00:08
Nick McGowan
Yeah, a little jams there. Your little babies. Is it the process that you’re finding is more enjoyable now? Being sober and being on meds and having that burst of creativity? Or is it more of the checking off the things and doing the work and being accomplished?

00:19:00:22 – 00:19:39:01
Mike D’Agostino
It’s the process. I mean, it’s like just a terrific ride to go on. And, you know, when I’m when I’m there, I’m creating something. If I’m writing like I don’t know what’s coming next, when I write poems, it’s not like I take 20, 20 days to write one poem. I’m usually doing it in one burst, one spurt free association, but when I get done with it, I’m just like, I didn’t, you know, I’m piecing all these things together one stanza after the other, you know, it’s it’s an endless font of creativity for me, and it goes into my music as well.

00:19:39:01 – 00:19:57:20
Mike D’Agostino
You know, it’s not easy. It’s not like I write a song in 5 minutes, you know, that takes a longer time. But sometimes when it takes me 30 minutes to write a song, it’s just it’s probably the best song I’ve written in a while. You know, I think of as Johnny Cash, who said, if you write a song in 30 minutes, you know, you know, you got something special there.

00:19:58:14 – 00:20:08:17
Nick McGowan
Do you feel like the the burst of energy and the focus comes from not only the the lack of alcohol, but the meditation and the awareness?

00:20:09:10 – 00:20:23:12
Mike D’Agostino
Oh, oh, yeah. The awareness, the mindfulness. I, I’ve meditated for the last 17 years, but I never became mindful until I took the substances out of my body.

00:20:23:12 – 00:20:24:15
Nick McGowan
Oh, that’s huge.

00:20:26:00 – 00:20:49:14
Mike D’Agostino
And that’s what they say in Buddhism. There’s just like, you know, don’t do don’t do those things. I’m don’t numb your mind because then you’re not able to be present. And I wasn’t present for a good long while. I was becoming less and less present. But now I don’t I, I don’t live in the past. I don’t live in the future.

00:20:49:19 – 00:20:53:18
Mike D’Agostino
I live in the present. And it’s it’s actually beautiful, to be honest.

00:20:54:03 – 00:20:59:18
Nick McGowan
Yeah. Isn’t it a beautiful thing to be right here, right now. But then again, when the episode comes out, it’ll be the past.

00:21:00:06 – 00:21:06:10
Mike D’Agostino
Yeah, you’re right about that. I’m not going to dwell on the past, but I would like to hear this podcast when it comes out.

00:21:07:10 – 00:21:35:21
Nick McGowan
Yeah, absolutely. And that’s not about dwelling. It’s about understanding where you’re at, where you’re getting and what you’re doing. It’s a beautiful thing to be present. It’s a very difficult thing to be present. So to be able to hone in on where the hell you are right then. And there is a thing that a lot of people have a hard time with, and I think that’s where people get stuck in life, is they try to kind of bandage things or just push things away and look at something different and make it easier.

00:21:36:05 – 00:21:50:23
Nick McGowan
But how do you manage right now? Again, your mindset of of fighting through that stuff? Is it a fight or is it something where you’ve gotten yourself into a habit at this point where you’re just moving and cruising along and you’re not afraid to fall back?

00:21:51:13 – 00:22:15:20
Mike D’Agostino
It’s kind of like, you know, judo where it’s you don’t you don’t force things. You just kind of let them happen as they may. That’s that’s just kind of what it’s like for me. It’s I don’t dwell on the past anymore because the past, to me, it is that there’s an adherence. I’ve learned from the past. But I’m I’m kind of just shifting forward, not trying to make things happen.

00:22:15:20 – 00:22:33:14
Mike D’Agostino
I’m just watching them happen. You know, I’m observing things more than trying to control it because, you know, one of the things I’m really into is stoicism. And one of the main things is just knowing that you have no control. The only thing you have control over is your mind. And that’s where I’m right I am right now.

00:22:33:14 – 00:22:55:17
Mike D’Agostino
It’s just understanding that I can’t control how somebody is going to react to me. I can’t control the weather. I can’t control absolutely books in life. It’s just going to happen. And the only thing I can do is just just kind of sit here and think, what’s the best way to react? Because I used to be such a reactionary person.

00:22:55:23 – 00:23:13:14
Mike D’Agostino
I used to be supersensitive, I used to be reactionary. And as a as a result of dialectical behavior therapy, I’m able to stop, observe and then proceed with well, not with caution, but just proceed generally.

00:23:14:00 – 00:23:19:12
Nick McGowan
You know, break that down a little bit more. So I’ll tell the audience what that what that therapy is about and how it’s been for you.

00:23:20:16 – 00:23:46:04
Mike D’Agostino
Basically, a lot of it has to do with mindfulness staying in the present moment. But at the same time, they have something called Stop, stop the S’s for stop t is for take a take a step back. O is for observe and P is for proceed. There’s a lot more to it. Thing is called wise mind, but it’s generally just not being hyper reactive.

00:23:46:10 – 00:23:48:02
Mike D’Agostino
I don’t know. It’s just changed my life.

00:23:48:11 – 00:23:51:14
Nick McGowan
You know, break down one of the sessions could look like for you.

00:23:51:14 – 00:24:18:14
Mike D’Agostino
Oh, it’s not really a session. They’re. They’re like tools I can reach out to any time in order for me to keep them going. I study them every day along with studying. AA It’s just understanding things like having boundaries, interpersonal, physical, mental boundaries. You have to be willing to go forward rather than, you know, shrink away from things.

00:24:18:20 – 00:24:32:01
Mike D’Agostino
It’s basically everything that I’ve been through, everything that I’ve created post the suicidal episode. It’s just all about moving forward.

00:24:32:17 – 00:24:51:15
Nick McGowan
I know it sounds like it could be a lot of stuff. So you went through that rough situation and started to move into recovery and to be able to get help. We’ve already covered a bunch of different things that you’ve done. You’ve gone through. You’re doing what your know, what certain pieces are within your day, that this could almost sound like too much.

00:24:51:19 – 00:24:57:16
Nick McGowan
There might be somebody that listens to this that goes, Yeah, I’m going through stuff, but God, I don’t want to do all that stuff. It’s a lot.

00:24:58:06 – 00:25:00:02
Mike D’Agostino
It’s work. You have to put in all that work.

00:25:01:01 – 00:25:03:01
Nick McGowan
Now, how do you keep yourself going with the work?

00:25:03:12 – 00:25:13:05
Mike D’Agostino
It’s just from knowing the benefits of it, really. I know that the work that I’m putting in, I’m going to get back. It’s a it’s a lot of return on investment, you know?

00:25:14:04 – 00:25:23:22
Nick McGowan
Yeah. You’re selfish. Roy, do you have any sort of morning routines or evening routines or anything like that? Any specific habits that would help you?

00:25:24:15 – 00:25:50:17
Mike D’Agostino
Yeah. You know, when I. Before I work, I’ll read out of the 12 and 12 steps of AA, you know, I’ll study up on them. I’ll do a prayer, which is a, it’s called an atheist prayer, but it’s what I was looking for. It’s generally just praying for everybody to have happiness and to not have suffering, to relieve people of their suffering, to give them happiness.

00:25:51:01 – 00:26:14:03
Mike D’Agostino
I like I said, I’m only new to prayer, but I don’t want to pray for things for myself. Like I don’t want to pray for a big car. I don’t want to use, you know, whatever the Supreme Being is as some sort of Santa clause, I would much rather people having it easy. And I don’t realize that when I pray for all people, I also praying for myself.

00:26:14:16 – 00:26:28:05
Mike D’Agostino
So that’s a big part of it. But then of course brush up on my diabetes skills. I’m looking at a bunch of flashcards that I, I study up on each day just to make sure I keep my tools sharpened.

00:26:28:19 – 00:26:30:02
Nick McGowan
Yeah, it’s almost like a workout.

00:26:30:12 – 00:26:45:01
Mike D’Agostino
Yeah. And I also, I also exercise daily. It hasn’t shown on my body yet, but it does really just knowing that I wake up, get out of bed, and I go straight to exercising definitely sets me in motion for the rest of the day.

00:26:45:12 – 00:27:01:03
Nick McGowan
So that’s huge right there. That’s a thing that some people tell me. They get up and they work out and they’ll kind of bitch and complain about it. But like, I get up and I do this, but I hate it. Mike Well, wonderful. How is it? It sucks. And that’s because you hate it. So why do you hate it?

00:27:01:03 – 00:27:16:00
Nick McGowan
What’s your deal? And they, they fight with that where there are other people that will get up and not jump into it because they’re excited to get into it. Now, do you get into it because you’re excited or do you get into it because you see it almost like a priming of yourself to get yourself ready for the day?

00:27:16:00 – 00:27:41:18
Mike D’Agostino
It’s more of a priming myself to get ready for the day. It’s body in motion stays in motion. That’s pretty much where I am. And I, I’ve been exercising for a very long time, but now that I do it and with everything else that I’ve talked about it, it really just invigorates my mind. A lot of, you know, mental training and physical training, it just makes my life, you know, studying a day and going through my day.

00:27:41:18 – 00:27:52:23
Mike D’Agostino
But I also like to just read a few pages out of a book that gives me wisdom. One of the books you gave me, I can’t remember what what it’s called, but it’s a it’s about the subconscious.

00:27:53:11 – 00:27:54:18
Nick McGowan
Our subconscious mind.

00:27:54:23 – 00:28:14:22
Mike D’Agostino
Yeah, that’s it. But I’ll read a couple pages of that. I don’t read it all in one chunk, I just when I read I like to find nuggets of wisdom and I read books with wisdom in them just to again, like I exercise just to invigorate my mind, my body, everything.

00:28:15:10 – 00:28:24:02
Nick McGowan
Not something different this year than you had done a couple of years prior, right? When you were reading, you were just reading for nuggets of wisdom.

00:28:24:02 – 00:28:42:12
Mike D’Agostino
I mean, I was reading for nuggets of wisdom. I’ve always been trying to solve whatever is wrong with me. But now that I know what’s wrong with me, I don’t use it as a crutch. Saying, Oh, I’m bipolar. You know, I’m like, I’m bipolar. Yeah. And I look at it like it’s something that I like to lean into.

00:28:42:21 – 00:29:03:23
Mike D’Agostino
I learn from it. When I was younger, you know, when you knew me, I was starting to get really anxious. Like I didn’t know what anxiety was really until I moved to the to Philadelphia. But once I learned that I had anxiety, I was just like, okay, so how are we going to deal with it? You know, I still get anxious, but I know what it is.

00:29:04:06 – 00:29:16:14
Mike D’Agostino
It’s like knowing the name, knowing the symptoms, you just kind of learn how to not make it define you, but you just you define yourself essentially.

00:29:17:16 – 00:29:36:08
Nick McGowan
It sounds like awareness is a major point to that because if you were not aware of what your problem was or what the issue was or anything, you wouldn’t have been able to do anything with it. So now that you’re able to absorb that, have that as a piece of you and understand that it is not just you, that it’s a piece of you, big thing, man.

00:29:36:13 – 00:29:45:02
Mike D’Agostino
I mean, it’s again, being mindful of the situation. And again, I credit Deb to that. I’ll stop talking about that.

00:29:45:23 – 00:30:00:17
Nick McGowan
But you could talk about the things you’re passionate about. I mean, that’s part of the whole deal with the podcast is to be able to talk through this stuff kind of unpack these things. So now that you’re healthier, you’re growing, you’re healing. What does it look like for you? Moving ahead.

00:30:01:19 – 00:30:23:22
Mike D’Agostino
Wow, that is a great question because like I said, I don’t live in the past. I don’t live in the future, but where am I headed? You know, I have no no huge goals, but I am working on a second book right now. I’m excited about that. I’m going to continue working on music because it makes me feel good.

00:30:24:02 – 00:30:54:20
Mike D’Agostino
I’m going forward. I’m just focused on, you know, continuing with AA, doing service. I want to be a sponsor to somebody eventually, but you know that that just kind of comes as it comes. But I’m looking forward to more so helping people. And if I see somebody in pain and I want to be there for them, I’m not going to be a knight in shining armor or anything, but I just want to at least be an ear that they can talk into because it’s it’s good to talk, you know?

00:30:54:20 – 00:31:17:18
Mike D’Agostino
Yeah, I have a therapist now. I get to talk with him for an hour. Sometimes I just shoot the shit. Other times we get into some really deep things that I didn’t even know I had on my mind. But when I talk to people, I find sometimes that they get comfortable with me and they they find themselves in a comfortable space where they can be vulnerable and revealing.

00:31:18:00 – 00:31:38:12
Mike D’Agostino
And it’s not like something I use as a a weapon against them. It’s because I generally care about them and whatever they’re going through, I’m not going to like, dishonor their trust. But that’s that’s the way I want to be going forward, is I just want to I just want to be there for people who are in pain and suffering.

00:31:38:23 – 00:31:59:21
Nick McGowan
That’s all. It takes a lot to be able to get to. When we think of how people hurt people and hurt people hurt people, they typically don’t look to be able to help people because they’re hurt. Even of myself, there have been different times where I’ve said, screw this person or screw that or what have you, because I don’t feel good about myself too.

00:31:59:21 – 00:32:19:20
Nick McGowan
The fact that you’re in a space now where you’re looking at servant leadership and wanting to be able to serve and love on people, that’s a huge thing because you’ve actually gotten through the stuff that you’ve gotten through to be able to get to that point. So for the people that are in the audience that aren’t at that point, what do you suggest for them to be able to do to actually get to that point?

00:32:19:20 – 00:32:45:03
Mike D’Agostino
Know there’s there’s a quote that I came across recently and it’s Eugene O’Neill. He said, God gave us mouths that clothes and ears that don’t that should tell us something. And one of the first things I did when I got out of the hospital was I went to a sensory deprivation chamber and I just closed my mind for a good hour.

00:32:45:10 – 00:33:04:14
Mike D’Agostino
And I expected to have some sort of spiritual experience, but I was forcing it. So at one point I just kind of breathed in and out and I just started hearing this white noise. And then I had that spiritual experience I was looking for. And the main thing was, Shut up where it was, shut the f up and listen.

00:33:04:22 – 00:33:32:23
Mike D’Agostino
And if you are going to get better, you’re going to have to listen and take somebody’s advice and not get in your head about it and be like they don’t care about me. You know, that’s unfortunate. And that’s that’s how it feels. And I know that’s how it feels because I lived it for so long. But once I really realized there are people in my corner, it opens up the door of possibilities to get better.

00:33:33:11 – 00:33:37:13
Mike D’Agostino
So in short, shut up and listen.

00:33:37:13 – 00:33:39:03
Nick McGowan
Yeah. Makes total sense.

00:33:39:12 – 00:33:41:04
Mike D’Agostino
It’s such a simple thing.

00:33:41:06 – 00:34:11:14
Nick McGowan
Yeah, you’re totally right. It is such a simple thing. It’s a simple and a stupid simple thing where you just need to do it. It’s also funny how some people think God or the universe or intuition or the genius or whatever you want to name it will speak to you in certain eloquent ways. I always think when people are like, when and all the guys and gals and all that stuff, like I don’t expect I’ll expect God to show up, be like, Wow, does this thing.

00:34:11:14 – 00:34:32:09
Nick McGowan
I’ll be like, What? Are you kidding me? But I’ve also heard that too. Where? Not the shut the fuck up, but I’ve heard the different things that are just extremely loud and they’re full through your entire body where you feel every bit of it. But you’ve got to be able to get to that point. You get past yourself to be able to actually be open and listen.

00:34:33:05 – 00:34:43:06
Nick McGowan
Because if you’re not, yeah, and your brain’s just going and going and going horn shit on top of it, trying to clean it up. Yep. That’s just a shitty situation.

00:34:44:03 – 00:35:04:11
Mike D’Agostino
I think a lot of people think they know so much. I mean, they’re in tune with their brain. That’s because they spend so much time up there. I spend a lot of time up there. You know, I had cozy furniture. You know, I didn’t clean up as much as I wanted to, but now I’m keeping it clean and I stay out of there.

00:35:04:20 – 00:35:14:18
Mike D’Agostino
I mean, I use my mind as a resource. I don’t use it to put myself down. And I and I know that I don’t know everything. And that’s just okay and beautiful.

00:35:15:02 – 00:35:21:12
Nick McGowan
Well, so do you think some of some of your healing is because of your coming to grips with.

00:35:21:12 – 00:35:38:23
Mike D’Agostino
Yes, short answer. Yes, ii1 of the one of the things in AA is the fourth step where you have to write down all of your resentments. There’s more to it than that. But I only took it as I had to write down all of my resentments because I did it to a t what the book was telling me to do.

00:35:39:05 – 00:36:01:02
Mike D’Agostino
But when I read all my resentments to my sponsor, I just realized to myself, it’s just like it’s so much energy to to keep up those resentments that I just realized I don’t care anymore. I don’t care enough because, you know, I had I had my parents on there. I had my siblings on there because my siblings used to pick on me so much when I was a kid.

00:36:01:09 – 00:36:21:12
Mike D’Agostino
It’s no wonder that I became so sensitive. I did not harden like a rock because of that. I just became softer and more vulnerable and thinking that the whole world was going to do something like that to me for all my life. But I definitely forget them. I love my siblings to death and we have a strong bond because of what we grew up through.

00:36:22:03 – 00:36:40:23
Mike D’Agostino
I’m not going to throw that away because I’m upset that my brother threw a sock at my eye when I was a kid, you know, stupid things like that. And like we were kids. They didn’t know what they were doing. It’s not like they knew the the ramifications of of picking on their little brother. So for that, all is forgiven.

00:36:41:01 – 00:36:54:10
Mike D’Agostino
But there are there are other people I had on my list that I probably haven’t thought about in years. There is one guy, Nick McGowan, who I had on my list and not the same Nick McGowan. I’m talking to. There are many Nick McGowan’s, I hope you know that.

00:36:55:04 – 00:36:59:10
Nick McGowan
There’s only a couple.

00:36:59:10 – 00:37:12:11
Mike D’Agostino
But no. Yeah, you did. You did make the list and it was such a petty thing. Most of the things just became so petty in the long run. It was just no reason to dwell on it.

00:37:13:07 – 00:37:15:00
Nick McGowan
You care to share what that petty thing was?

00:37:15:02 – 00:37:34:01
Mike D’Agostino
Well, with you, I think when we knew each other, I felt a lot of the time, like you were trying to sell me on something and trying to get me to do things that I didn’t want to do. And that’s what the petty thing was. And it sounds like a big thing, but it was because I was just, oh, it’s because that’s what I thought.

00:37:34:15 – 00:37:58:13
Mike D’Agostino
And everything I thought was just shit, complete and utter bullshit. And that’s just because my mind had that chatter and I was just like, you know, everybody’s trying to fool you like that. My wife told me one time because she knows how much I’m in my head. And she said, Michael, you do realize that nobody gives a shit.

00:37:58:17 – 00:38:17:13
Mike D’Agostino
And and it was the nobody gives a shit kind of, you know, the positive. Nobody gives a shit. It’s like nobody’s hyper focused on you. You’re hyper focused on you. And that’s where I was for such a long time. And now that I don’t have to worry about that weight lifted off my shoulder.

00:38:18:05 – 00:38:37:06
Nick McGowan
Yeah. So that’s the story of us. And what you tied to to me is one of many stories of different people that you’ve tied different things to. So how have you changed those stories? Because that story is still there until you change it. So what have you changed that story, too?

00:38:38:03 – 00:39:11:03
Mike D’Agostino
I mean, like I said, it’s it’s it’s my story. And I stuck to it. You know, I, I don’t need that to be my story anymore. It’s more objective than subjective. You know, that’s why I observe rather than sub serve. Is that a word? Now, that’s not a word, but. No, no, I just I have to realize that everything that I experienced in the past, I don’t remember the same way that I did when it was actually happening.

00:39:12:05 – 00:39:24:20
Mike D’Agostino
And and it’s easy to let go because I know deep down in myself that I wasn’t in my best mind at that time. So it’s easy. It’s easy to forgive.

00:39:25:13 – 00:39:26:22
Nick McGowan
What you say. It’s easy to forgive.

00:39:27:20 – 00:39:52:05
Mike D’Agostino
Because everybody deserving of forgiveness. And my in my view, I mean, look at us. I thought that I’d never talk to you again when when we stopped talking. But, you know, I created this thing called I Am Human. It’s just like a little Facebook group, you know, a couple hundred people. But it’s where I believe we reconnected just because there was just people that I knew on Facebook.

00:39:52:05 – 00:40:07:10
Mike D’Agostino
And I just wanted to have a place where we could be vulnerable and support each other. And that that’s basically what that was. You know, you jived with it and it’s not like I said, Hey, let’s give Nick another chance. I was just like, Hey, I want to reconnect with Nick because I haven’t talked to him in a while.

00:40:07:14 – 00:40:34:10
Mike D’Agostino
And then what I but when I met you again, I realized we have changed immensely since we knew each other in our early twenties. Just so much life had happened and it was so much of a good thing I was still going through it when we when we reconnected. But I think I was in a cocoon. You know, I was I was I was just aching to be, you know, now I’m a little butterfly.

00:40:34:15 – 00:40:38:21
Mike D’Agostino
Me Flip flop, flip flop. Those are my wings flapping.

00:40:39:16 – 00:40:49:06
Nick McGowan
If you couldn’t see it, you could hear it. Flip flop. Well, you set up that group. Think subconsciously to help yourself.

00:40:49:10 – 00:41:15:20
Mike D’Agostino
Yeah, it was subconsciously to help myself. And I find myself using it less and less because I’m help it, you know? But that group was a result of one night when I got incredibly drunk I call my drunk self drunk mike and drunk my grigg’s and a lot of bad decisions but I am human. Good decision telling people about my suicidal tendencies, good decision.

00:41:16:04 – 00:41:31:13
Mike D’Agostino
You know, they only led to good things. In essence, when I tried to commit suicide, I basically did away with my old self, the Phenix rising from the ashes, and I feel my mind feels fresh like a newborn baby.

00:41:32:06 – 00:41:53:06
Nick McGowan
Its perspective of write off. You’re always in the negative and you’re looking at negative and guess what? Your mind’s going to be a negative if you’re looking at the positive side of things and you’re always looking at the positive side of things, and you always look at the positive side. So there’s balance to that as well. You don’t want to have those complete tosses and turns from going back and forth.

00:41:53:06 – 00:42:02:18
Nick McGowan
But finding balance and it sounds like Stoicism has helped with some of that as well. You want to go into why you kind of went down that path?

00:42:02:18 – 00:42:24:09
Mike D’Agostino
Because somebody called me a stoic once and I was just like, I don’t know what that means. And I looked it up and was like, Oh, yeah, maybe I am a stoic and I’m not. I honestly, before I wouldn’t see myself as a stoic because, you know, you need a really good constitution to be a stoic. And it’s not about like I am exactly where I want to be right now.

00:42:24:09 – 00:42:46:07
Mike D’Agostino
I’m not overly positive. I’m not super negative. I’m somewhere in the middle. And it’s and it’s a wonderful place to be. And that’s what I see. Stoicism as it generally controlling your mind. And luckily I fell into AA and they have something called the Serenity Prayer, you know, God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

00:42:46:15 – 00:43:09:23
Mike D’Agostino
And it’s the wisdom to know the difference that I’ve been overlooked in for the last several months. But I was in a meditation AA group the other night, and I and I was just like, you know, the one thing I didn’t realize the best part of the Serenity Prayer is the wisdom to know the difference, to know that you have completely no control.

00:43:09:23 – 00:43:32:09
Mike D’Agostino
And that’s just okay, because as long as you have control over your mind, that’s the thing. You can change. You can change your mind. And the power of the mind is just amazing. I’m sure you understand that. Especially, you know, if you read that book about the subconscious, it’s just what you can do. I know in that book, Stop Me if I’m talking too much now.

00:43:33:12 – 00:43:56:07
Mike D’Agostino
I know in that book there’s one thing that I really jived with was saying like, you’re the captain of a boat and your subconscious is the people in the lower decks who are just like shoveling the coal, making all the machinery work. If the captain tells them to go this way, they’re not thinking about the overall ramifications of it, they’re just like, okay, you want to be negative, I’m going to be negative.

00:43:56:11 – 00:44:19:14
Mike D’Agostino
It’s a mind shift that to somebody, somebody who’s going through a lot of bad things at this time, it’s somebody could say, Oh, you just flip the switch. It’s that easy. It’s not that easy. That is one heavy switch to flip. But you can do it as long as you’re telling those gentlemen in the lower decks, this is where we’re going right now?

00:44:19:14 – 00:44:21:14
Mike D’Agostino
We are steering away from those ice caps.

00:44:22:16 – 00:44:30:16
Nick McGowan
So what’s the tool that you use that others could use to be able to steer the ship like you’re talking about and get to their subconscious?

00:44:31:13 – 00:44:54:03
Mike D’Agostino
I don’t want to say fake it till you make it, because that doesn’t seem right. But it is generally that it’s telling your mind that things are better than you, than they seem. You know, I trained my brain to understand that the darkness is in such a terrible, frightening thing I learn from the darkness. You know, I went to very dark places.

00:44:54:10 – 00:45:10:06
Mike D’Agostino
I thought very dark things. I know what they do. I know the same way that I learned from being bipolar. I just learned how to live with the darkness. And at that point, the darkness, I was just like, Well, if he’s not going to play with us, I’m taking my ball and going home.

00:45:10:20 – 00:45:12:14
Nick McGowan
So has the darkness totally gone home?

00:45:13:02 – 00:45:37:06
Mike D’Agostino
Oh, it’s still there. It’s. It’s in the deep recesses of my mind. It’s not like I’ll never have a sad thought again. But when I do have the sad thought, I will observe the sad thought and the sad thought will go away. It’s basically like storm clouds. They’re not there the whole time. They eventually just go away. Unless you’re in some part of the world where there’s always storm clouds.

00:45:37:06 – 00:45:53:16
Mike D’Agostino
But that’s a whole other thing. But I just understand that let’s stick with the clouds. You know, it’s a gray day, but behind the clouds, you know, the sun’s still there. And that sounds corny as F, but it’s generally the way I think about it.

00:45:54:09 – 00:46:19:18
Nick McGowan
Oh, some people learn by visualizing things, seeing it with their eyes. Some people learn by touching things, other people learn by hearing things. So I know that visual in my mind’s eye allows me to understand that you’re totally right. Like we can look at the gray sky and think, Shit, it’s just going to be a terrible day. It’s going to rain all day long, but little do you know that a cloud can go by and it’s beautiful?

00:46:20:02 – 00:46:30:06
Nick McGowan
Almost like when you’re flying, you know, you get up through a storm and you get above that and it’s just clear skies. You’re just cruising along. It’s like a whole different world at that point.

00:46:30:15 – 00:46:31:05
Mike D’Agostino
I feel that.

00:46:31:14 – 00:46:49:11
Nick McGowan
That awareness of understanding that there’s something beyond that is huge. The wisdom to understand that that gray sky sucks, but I know what’s behind it does not. And that makes me feel better. Instead of just looking at that one cloud and going fuck worlds to shed at this point. Yeah.

00:46:50:15 – 00:47:05:03
Mike D’Agostino
And if I do have a sad day, that’s the one thing that will just keep me going. Just knowing that the pain’s temporary. It’s not forever. I mean, it felt like forever for a very long time for me. But, you know, I’m finally on the flipside.

00:47:06:02 – 00:47:15:18
Nick McGowan
I’m glad you’re on the flipside and I’m glad that you’re healing and I’m glad that you’re on the path that you’re on. What sort of tips would you give to anybody that’s on a similar path towards self-mastery?

00:47:16:01 – 00:47:44:03
Mike D’Agostino
Good question. Well, you control your mind. You you are in absolute control of your mind and keep that in mind. First and foremost, I follow my instinct a lot. I’m not instinct. I feel my instinct a lot. And when it comes to what’s the good decision, what’s the bad decision, I try not to dwell on what could lead to failure anymore.

00:47:44:15 – 00:48:13:14
Mike D’Agostino
I just follow what my heart feels. And I know there are some people who are going to listen to this and be like, I’m not that wishy washy. What are you talking about? But I mean, generally if somebody is going through what I’m going through or I’ve gone through, I know that they’re feeling person because the only reason I found myself in that dark recesses of my mind was because I felt way, way too much.

00:48:14:03 – 00:48:32:18
Mike D’Agostino
And it it’s it’s a very hard thing to bear. So if you’re going through it, I honestly can tell you as a person who’s gone through it myself, that it will get better, but it’s up to you to make that change. You’re the master of your own soul. Can’t can’t tell you any plainer than that.

00:48:33:04 – 00:48:48:23
Nick McGowan
It’s a beautiful way to be able to put it. Mike, and I appreciate you being on the show with us today, and I hope that everybody got something out of this. I really appreciate you being honest and open and, being willing to talk about your story. Like, where can I go? Where can people find your book? Where can they connect with you?

00:48:48:23 – 00:48:50:03
Nick McGowan
You know, tell us your details.

00:48:51:06 – 00:49:13:14
Mike D’Agostino
Yeah, I have a website, Mike Dexcom, that has all my music links to my music. It has the link to the book. And when the new one comes out, it’ll have a link to that too. But yeah, dude, thanks for having me on here. You are very welcoming and anybody who’s on the show with you will have a great time.

00:49:13:19 – 00:49:31:00
Nick McGowan
And I appreciate that. Thank you again, Mike, for being here. It’s an honor to be able to walk through that stuff with you at different times that we do. We have a friendship outside of this podcast, and I appreciate that friendship, and then I just appreciate where you’re at and what you’ve gone through because the person you are today is vastly different than the person you were.

00:49:31:05 – 00:49:47:02
Nick McGowan
Even a year ago or even a couple of months ago. Dude, I think you’re doing a great job. Keep on with it. And anybody that’s listening to this, feel free to reach out to one of us. Feel free to reach out to somebody that you know that you trust, who you feel you can talk to. You just need to be able to talk about it again.

00:49:47:02 – 00:50:15:21
Nick McGowan
Thank you very much for being with us, Mike, the audience. Thank you for listening and take care. Another great conversation on today’s episode of The Mindset and Self-mastery show. Something that stood out to me about this episode was how Dec subconscious was calling out for help. Think about that for a moment. The subconscious knows what to do and is taking steps to help outside of what could seem like its normal means.

00:50:16:09 – 00:50:34:09
Nick McGowan
What do you think though? I’d love to hear your thoughts on the conversation today and if you enjoyed the episode, please jump over to iTunes and subscribe, vibrate and leave a five star review. It’s very much appreciated and if you really enjoyed the show today, go ahead and share it with your friends. We covered a pretty tough subject and got some great tips that really work for all of us.

00:50:34:22 – 00:50:56:17
Nick McGowan
Check out the show notes for more info and contact info for Dags and check out the other episodes on the Mindset and Self-mastery show e-comm as well as our YouTube channel, The Mindset and Self-mastery Show. Thank you again, Mike Dags, for being on the show and being honest, real and raw with us. And thank you to you, the one letting us share deep personal conversations.

00:50:57:02 – 00:51:13:15
Nick McGowan
I hope it’s as meaningful to you as it is for us. And thanks for hanging out with us today. And with that. Remember, your mindset matters and so do you.