When Life Falls Apart You Need To Sit With The Mess With Natalie Mullin

Nick McGowan (00:01.006)

Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan, and today on the show I have Natalie Mullin. Natalie, how are you doing?

Natalie Mullin (00:11.049)

I’m great, how are you?

Nick McGowan (00:12.398)

Great, I’m glad that you’re on. I think we were just, we were going through technology and anybody who has any feelings about any sort of technology wouldn’t be listening to the show if they didn’t have any sort of technology anyway, but we’ve all dealt with something. My grandparents came to mind because I’m like, man, they’re in their 80s and if I asked them to listen to a podcast, they’d be like, what? I’d tell them, it’s basically like an online radio show. They’re like, yeah, I remember radio. I’m like, all right.

Natalie Mullin (00:26.915)

Hahaha

Natalie Mullin (00:38.475)

Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (00:41.562)

We were riffing about technology and I’m really glad that you’re here because this is the second attempt. We were going to have a call a while back and when we started to go through the tech stuff, I was like, man, please don’t tell me we need to reschedule because we’re already having a good conversation. So Natalie, why don’t you kick us off? Tell us what you do for a living and what’s one thing that most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre.

Natalie Mullin (00:54.14)

I know.

Natalie Mullin (01:03.283)

Okay, so thank you so much Nick for having me. My name is Natalie Mullen and.

I do a couple of things. So one, I’m a teacher, but I’m just about to transition out of that field. And I’m gonna be starting something completely new, which is gonna be sales for a tech company. So I’m really excited for that. And then I’m also a wellness coach and I support women who are looking for more balance in their lives. And something that people don’t know about me, or some people don’t know about me, is that I was living in Antigua for a bit. It’s a tiny little country, only about 90,000 people in the Caribbean.

And I decided to quit my teaching job and I opened up a bubble tea business on the side of the road, literally selling from a tent. And I was able to grow into three different locations by the end of it. And so that was like a cool but random thing. And I gave up my teaching job to do that, which at the time people were like, oh, my gosh, what are you doing? And I’m about to do it again. So that’s me in a nutshell.

Nick McGowan (02:02.142)

It sounds like a pattern, which is a good pattern, especially as an entrepreneur. Like you start something, you get the itch, and then you keep going. Did you also do anything like that when you were a little kid, like lemonade stands or selling stuff?

Natalie Mullin (02:13.235)

You know, I didn’t do lemonade, but I used to braid hair. I used to make bracelets. I just would find ways to charge people for things. They’re like, I don’t know. I was very money driven and I was like, okay, I need money for this. So it’s like, if someone’s gonna ask me, I used to sell my snacks, like all those little things. It’s like, I have this passion flaky, they want it. How much do you want for it? And it’s a happy exchange.

Nick McGowan (02:35.69)

Yeah, exactly. What a cool thing. I love that. And especially, it’s cool to hear about when somebody has a successful business they’ve had for a long time, they’ve done all this stuff, but then I like to know, what did it take to get there? And what sort of shitty, random businesses do you have that when you think back, you’re like, oh my God, I can’t believe I did that, or I forgot that I did that thing. Like even as you say about a bubble tea, I-

Natalie Mullin (02:59.093)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (03:01.61)

I forgot that for a summer, my dad and brother and I had an ice cream shop. An ice cream and water ice shop. But it was like, it was a summer. It was one season because we were like, Hey, we got this extra space. What if we cram sugar and people in there? Like, all right, you know, but what a cool thing, because that’s even one of those things that helps you get into something else or helps you learn things. So I know when we were first talking, you had said your odd thing was something different. I’m glad you went with the bubble tea.

Natalie Mullin (03:07.047)

Oh, I love that. Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (03:22.24)

Yep.

Nick McGowan (03:30.954)

Because how did you get to bubble tea and why bubble tea?

Natalie Mullin (03:31.107)

Okay.

Natalie Mullin (03:34.407)

Okay, so I’ll tell you, so funny enough, that business came out of a failed business. So first they decided to start a teabag business, like for actual hot teas. And it was a really good idea and it was really good teas and I custom made the flavors, I put all this work into it. But it was…

the branding for the teas was based on the Caribbean and it just didn’t really work to sell like mainstream, right? It was more like a souvenir product. And so I kind of had a hard time distributing it. And.

It’s a lot of work to do a business and I was in Antigua, so shipping issues and trying to get it and the cost of doing business when you’re not in, for instance, North America or something like that. You kind of take certain things for granted. But from that business, I remember I was with my friend and we were just walking down the street and she was like, oh, there’s a bubble tea place. Do you want to try it? And I was like, well, I’ve never had an interest in bubble tea, but I have a tea business, so sure, it’s kind of related. Let me try it.

Nick McGowan (04:31.47)

crossword.

Natalie Mullin (04:34.877)

they gave me a sample of something and it had the little tapioca balls and I remember tasting it and spitting it right out and I was like this is disgusting like I can’t do it and I remember the lady was like oh no let me give you something else and I was like nope I never want bubble tea again and she was like no give me one more chance so she gave me a different drink and it had these little passion fruit jellies in it.

Nick McGowan (04:41.537)

I’m sorry.

Nick McGowan (04:49.322)

And after that.

Natalie Mullin (04:57.555)

and I took one sip of it and I was like, oh my gosh, this is exciting, this is delicious. I was just on vacation in Canada at the time, but I was living in Antigua. And I was like, they don’t have this in Antigua. I’m gonna bring it there. And I think two days later, stuff was ordered and shipped to Antigua. So by the time I got back from my vacation, the stuff was already there for me. We got a tent, we got a table, and that was kind of the beginning, Googling how do I start a bubble tea business. The first day we set up the tent, we forgot the sugar.

Nick McGowan (05:23.608)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (05:27.769)

So that was an interesting story. But it’s okay because we didn’t really have any customers either. We just gave away a bunch of sugarless bubble tea. And now I love bubble tea. It’s one of my absolute favorite drinks. Even the tapioca balls absolutely love them. So yeah, it was a really interesting rodeo.

Nick McGowan (05:46.502)

Well, bubble tea is an odd thing if you’re not used to drinking it. And I’ve done the same thing. Like, I remember the first time I drank it, I was like, why is this straw, like, four foot wide? This is huge. Like, what the hell is in here? What are all these little things? And the person I was with at the time was just like, just shut up. Just drink it. I was like, all right. One of those tapioca balls in the back of your throat, and you’re like, what the fuck was that? What is that? I, I like tapioca. God, I couldn’t tell you even the last time I had tapioca pudding.

Natalie Mullin (05:55.991)

Hehehehe

Natalie Mullin (06:15.504)

Mmm.

Nick McGowan (06:16.13)

thinking of those being huge. I’m like, how did somebody think about that? Like who was like, you know what? We’ve got this pudding or this tapioca. Let’s put it in a drink and let’s slurp these things up. Like what a weird thing, but.

Natalie Mullin (06:28.915)

Yeah, are they the same thing? I don’t even, because I do like tapioca pudding, but I feel like those like ball things are much smaller in the pudding. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (06:36.854)

They’re teeny tiny, but I mean, makes sense. It’s like just the bubble tea is like five times, six times the size of those. So imagine the bowl of tapioca pudding you could have with those big ass balls, you know? But it’s an odd thing. And if you’re not used to it, not used to it. Once I’ve had a lot of people that have tried it. Like I used to live in Portland, Oregon, and there was a bubble tea place like right around the corner. So I’d grab a strawberry milk bubble tea every few days.

Natalie Mullin (06:44.817)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (06:49.454)

I know.

Nick McGowan (07:06.134)

as like a little dessert or whatever, and there were people that would stop by and I would see them be like, I don’t know, and they’d like try this little bit, and same deal, where they’d have kind of that look like, no, I’m good, and they would walk out, or other people like, this is great. But what a cool thing for you to be able to not only experience that, but then to pull the trigger and say, all right, we’re gonna do this, and I’m gonna start selling this thing, because again, that’s like another step to be able to get you to something else. If you look back from where you’re at now,

Natalie Mullin (07:06.292)

Uh huh.

Natalie Mullin (07:15.875)

I’m out.

Natalie Mullin (07:31.614)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (07:34.122)

all the steps it took to be able to get to where you’re at. It’s funny when people say like, if you knew all those steps, would you still do it? Because most people would be like, fuck no. I guess it took a lot out of me or whatever.

Natalie Mullin (07:40.983)

Hmm. Yeah. Especially when you have your own business, like I think you just you get excited about an idea and you’re like, okay, let’s go for it. And then, you know, you’re seeing it through and you’re like, okay, you meet a couple of hiccups and you’re like, it’s okay, I can overcome, I can persevere. And then stuff really starts to just get wonky and you’re like, why am I doing this?

Nick McGowan (07:51.329)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (08:05.499)

And the thing is if other people know about your business, it’s more pressure because then people are watching you, right? And you’re like, Oh, I have to keep up the business now. Everybody’s looking at me. And then you have like this internal battle. Well, I did. I don’t know if everybody goes through this. I had this battle of like, I don’t even want to do this anymore. But then I’m like, but I have to do this because I have my customers. I like, everybody knows about my business. I’m the only one on the island offering this. People want it to grow more. So, you know, and I went through a lot of like not fun stuff.

Nick McGowan (08:10.316)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (08:36.498)

like starting that business, like we had a…

like a friendship that just totally got destroyed through the business and wasn’t expecting that at all. And I had a lot of people copy my business idea, but like verbatim. I mean, like I would walk by and be like, is that my business? Like they wouldn’t even try to like, let’s just change it up. You know, and Antigua is a little bit different in terms of intellectual property and copyrights and how you maintain trademarks and stuff like that. You know, Island Life is a little bit different. So that really hurt me on a personal level.

Nick McGowan (08:54.914)

Ha ha.

Natalie Mullin (09:10.177)

level. So it wasn’t just business. Because the thing is, when you start a business, it’s like your baby, right? So it’s like you are so attached to it. And so somebody just comes and tries to knock it off. Or maybe they try to hurt your business. They spread lies. Like all of these things. It really takes a toll on your mental health and psyche. And I never even saw that as a possibility. All I wanted to do was sell bubble tea.

Nick McGowan (09:33.511)

Well, yeah. But for you to be able to go through that, deal with that, and continue to take that beating, in a sense, in certain ways, I think entrepreneurs are kind of sadists. Like, we enjoy the fight. Like, you want to fucking hit me? Hit me. I’ll show you what I got, sort of deal. Yeah, exactly. You remember, you hit me once, and I hit you once, and then you hit the ground, or whatever that’s going to be, you know? But even with those, not physically, but just like the situations where the stuff happens,

Natalie Mullin (09:48.096)

Yeah, it’s like, I’ll get back up, yeah.

Nick McGowan (10:02.302)

I’ve seen a lot of people over the course of my life that have said and like leaned on the fact that they were an entrepreneur, but didn’t really have what it took to be an entrepreneur. Like we experienced that and I say we as just basically the global group here. In 2020 when the pandemic hit so many people were like, oh, I want to start a company. I want to start a business and they’re not, they’re not really sure how to actually do it.

Natalie Mullin (10:13.692)

Eh.

Natalie Mullin (10:19.691)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (10:29.078)

And I think it’s a good thing for us to be able to get into. As business owners, we can understand what this shit looks like. And especially from a wellness side and a coach, I assume it’s one person, you, and maybe a few people that help with certain things, which is different than having an agency or having a services business or an actual products business where you need all these different people. It takes different levels of thought and compassion and empathy to be able to work with those people and not drive yourself crazy.

Natalie Mullin (10:29.13)

Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (10:58.666)

And that’s what I like to be able to get into when it comes to this stuff, because those people that either started a company in 2020 and are still doing it, maybe this is their first business. For me, it was not my first business. It just happened to make sense to be able to do the things that I did at that time. But there are people that got into it, started it, and ended it within a few months, like podcasting. There are so many people that started a podcast and then realized this shit is tough. It’s hard, yeah.

Natalie Mullin (10:58.795)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (11:26.407)

Yeah, it’s a lot of work.

Nick McGowan (11:28.366)

There’s a lot of work, not only getting guests, but doing the production of it, doing it the right way. When I’ve talked to people, they’re like, yeah, I had a podcast. I’m like, how did it go? What did it do? They’re like, I just wanted to hit play on the microphone and just record it and do the thing, but everything else sucked. And then there are other people that love all the details and the fights to it. So let’s talk about some of the stuff that you’ve been through, not only with that business, but being able to look back and thinking from the perspective of somebody that

is going through that and really struggling in a way of like, do I keep pushing with this thing because I have a passion for it, but I feel like I’m losing my soul or, you know, just kind of being burnt out. What are the things that come to mind as I talk about that?

Natalie Mullin (12:10.784)

Yeah.

Yeah, you know, it’s really interesting because this is kind of why I got into being a wellness coach in the first place because And now i’ll go backwards for a sec My business kind of didn’t end in the way I expected so I was

an ambitious person, I still am an ambitious person, but I was very ambitious, very driven, and I was so focused on my business, but also trying to balance all the other areas of life. Balance being married and being a wife, balance, I was just coming out of teaching, but I was still teaching at the beginning when I had the business. And then balance my social life and all these things, that I was being pulled in all these different directions. And sometimes you don’t even realize that you’re running out of steam and that other things are starting to fall by the wayside.

Nick McGowan (12:53.142)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (12:57.753)

didn’t realize until all of a sudden my husband one day said like he wanted a divorce. And I was like, sorry, what was that word that you said? Like I remember thinking like what rhymes with divorce? Like I must have heard wrong. And long story short, like just out of the blue, he wanted a divorce. And what I didn’t realize is that I had been neglecting our relationship and neglecting our marriage because I was so focused on the business. I was putting out fires every single day. Even though I had a staff, it still came back to me at the end.

of the day. And I just at that time, I had to do everything, right? Whether it’s purchasing, whether it’s driving, whether it’s picking up these or every single part of the business. So now it’s like I was working so hard for the business and I was losing the person who mattered the most to me. I was losing my husband, my family. And so we ended up getting separated. And that was a very traumatic period in life for me, because again, I didn’t want this. All I wanted to do in life was like be married. It’s probably one of my biggest goals. And

Nick McGowan (13:55.286)

Hmm.

Natalie Mullin (13:57.673)

just slipping out my fingers or there wasn’t anything I could do about it. I couldn’t get him to change his mind. I tried and so

That really broke me and I was living in Antigua at the time and I was so depressed. I didn’t really have a huge support system there because that’s where my husband is from. But all of my family is from Canada. All my friends are in Canada. So after trying to stick it out for a couple of months, I was like my mental health like this is not working and I was so depressed. I didn’t even like I’ve heard of depression, but it’s one thing to hear about it. And it’s another thing to like go through it yourself. And I could never have understood how painful depression could be. Like I never knew what it was like to be that low.

Nick McGowan (14:28.448)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (14:36.105)

Nothing super traumatic had ever happened to me in life before. And so I think I was just truly unprepared to ever go to such a low in life. So it really flattened me out.

And eventually I had to, so I had to close the business. I had to come back home and you know, I had to really pull myself together. And for a while, it doesn’t happen right away. You can’t just pull yourself together right away. That’s the thing. Like when your life falls apart, you have to sit with the mess. And sometimes it’s hard because you have to still untangle things. So I had to work on how do I close this business? How do I like let go of my staff who’ve been believing in this business and have wanted, right, like there was so many closed bank accounts. How do I figure out moving?

Nick McGowan (15:03.022)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (15:17.161)

tell? Who do I not tell? Because I was very embarrassed. I felt very ashamed the idea of divorce. And I know that divorce is very common in society, but…

For me at least, I mean, I didn’t want to be divorced. So it was not something I wanted to share, right? Like I didn’t want to be separated. So I would walk around like pretending everything was okay. People like, oh, how’s your husband? I’m like, oh, he’s great. And like, meanwhile, we’re not even talking, right? And like that’s like living a lie. And like, I’m a very authentic person. So I felt so uncomfortable doing that in the first place. And I was like, I can’t keep living this lie. Everything’s gonna fall apart. So I remember just like had to leave and I come back and it’s just like, you’re sitting there and you’re like doing nothing.

It’s like a rock bottom. But then from there, it’s like, eventually you’re like, okay, I gotta build myself back up. How do I get out of this? And so I started working with a wellness coach and she was like, you gotta prioritize your own wellbeing. Like put him aside, like, yes, you still want your marriage to work out, but like I was spending all my effort trying to get him to work on the relationship, trying to get him back. Can we go to therapy? Can we do this? Can we do that? All my effort was going towards fixing the marriage. And she was like, no, you’ve gotta stop. Like you’ve gotta focus on fixing yourself.

Nick McGowan (16:29.09)

Hehehe

Natalie Mullin (16:29.295)

So…

You know, it was harsh words, but I was like, no, she’s right. And so she was like, what do you even want out of life? Who are you? Like you’ve forgotten who you are outside of being a wife. You don’t even know who Natalie is. And that kind of hit me like, oh my God, she’s actually right. Like I and then so she got me to do things like who was I as a teenager? Who was I as a young adult? What kinds of music? What kinds of food? What what are the things I did? What are the goals and aspirations that I have? And she’s like, you have to start building like your own new life and your own pattern. She’s like, you get to start again.

I know you think it’s the worst thing in the world, but she’s like, this is actually a gift. Like you get to start again, but you get to be intentional. So you can create the kind of life you want. You can think about the values, the beliefs, the goals that you want. And now you know like what to go after. You can set up boundaries now. You can practice self care. You can say no to things. So I started working on myself and just doing that work. Of course I went to therapy and had to unwind a whole bunch of stuff there too, except my own responsibility in the marriage

coming apart. And what’s so interesting is that as I was on my own journey and just focusing on myself now, because that was one thing I learned is like, you can’t control other people.

And like, and you have to accept what you can and can’t control. And I think a lot of times we spend a lot of time trying to control things that are out of our control. And it’s it gets you nowhere. And it’s very draining and it’s very exhausting. And you’re just left depleted and emotionally and mentally like broken. So once I just started focusing on myself and doing that. Thankfully, like, you know what? My husband and I were restored. It’s a it’s I don’t even it’s kind of a weird.

Natalie Mullin (18:08.615)

not even sure how it happened kind of thing. It’s like I had to go back to Antigua just for like maybe a month. And we had a conversation. And I guess while I was doing my thing, he was doing his thing. And somehow it just so happened. Right. And so that’s why I think it’s important to let go sometimes. It’s like I just have to trust that whatever is happening on his side, I was always hoping for reconciliation, but I couldn’t guarantee it. Obviously, he showed no signs of interest in it. But you just have to let go and surrender. And

you know, just focus on you and even if he didn’t, even if we didn’t get restored though, I know I would have been okay because I had started to build back that path and I think, I actually think that’s why things got better is because I realized I could do this without him. Whereas for the longest while I was like, no, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t make it if he’s not with me, you know? So…

Yeah, that’s like my long-winded story, but I forgot what you originally asked me, but I hope that helps anybody who’s listening, maybe if they were able to take any kind of tidbit from there. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (19:13.274)

I’ve, um, divorce is a tough thing. It really is. And I’ve, I went through a divorce a couple of years ago and I’d said to people, I didn’t get married to get a divorce, but I sure as fuck didn’t get a divorce to die and didn’t have the conversation that you had because I, I knew what the problem was internally with me that I had abandoned myself and that I had

Natalie Mullin (19:26.527)

Mmm.

Nick McGowan (19:34.59)

I had codependency issues and there were problems within that. And it really takes us being self-aware to be able to see what those things are. But I really, really appreciate that you pointed out when you go through that shit, you have to sit in it. You actually have to be in it. You have to be dirty in it. You have to sit in the mud. You have to feel it. You have to taste it. You have to walk through it. You have to work through it. In this day and age, sometimes I sound, I feel like I sound like an old friggin man.

Natalie Mullin (19:36.785)

Mmm.

Natalie Mullin (19:51.671)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (20:02.606)

Back in my day, but in all reality like everybody wants things so quickly right now Like we want the problem. We want the solution We want the prime delivery on every single thing and that’s not how this works you need to do the fucking work and you need to actually work through it and

Natalie Mullin (20:03.874)

Hehehehe

Natalie Mullin (20:07.767)

fast.

Natalie Mullin (20:13.439)

Now…

Natalie Mullin (20:19.423)

And it’s hard. It’s like, it’s not easy work. It’s hella hard and miserable every day. And you’re like, why am I even doing this? And of course, sometimes depending on the severity, you might even question like, is there a point? Do I even wanna go on?

But you gotta pull from deep within somewhere. And sometimes you have to pull on other people’s strength. I just wanna share that. There was a point I had zero motivation even to wake up and open my eyes in the morning. I was like, I can’t do it. To brush my teeth, I’m like, I can’t do it. But thankfully, I did have people in my life who were like, Natalie, pull it together. Get up, go wash your face. I’m coming over; we’re gonna go do this. And go to therapy, sit and figure out where went wrong, what can you do better? And it’s really important a support system so that sometimes you have to lean on other people’s strength when you just don’t have it for yourself.

Nick McGowan (21:11.094)

Yeah, you can’t do it all on your own. It does start with you being self-aware to be able to say I’ve got a problem or there’s something going on, but you definitely need to be able to go through it. And I’m glad you got back to that, because I was gonna ask, it sounded like there are some, or were, some codependency that you had, along with some traumas that you had that probably came from how you were raised or just the experiences that you had that…

Natalie Mullin (21:18.273)

now.

Nick McGowan (21:35.214)

told you life should look this sort of way until you were kind of cracked open in a sense. Because when the divorce thing comes up, even if, like I was the one who said it on my side, but for you to be able to get hit with that, it’s still similar. It’s a fucking line in the sand at that point.

Natalie Mullin (21:37.257)

Uh huh.

Natalie Mullin (21:52.172)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (21:52.854)

You’ve got to do something with it. So how did you go through and work through, and what did you find out? Were there deeper codependency issues or childhood traumas that you needed to get back to, and how did you work through those?

Natalie Mullin (22:06.055)

Yeah, I guess the good thing about that time of separation and me having to deal with my own stuff is dealing with things from childhood that I didn’t even realize were present. So for instance, my mom, she’s always believed in this idea of marriage. I think it was her biggest goal for my sister and I is her two daughters are married and then she’s successful in life.

Nick McGowan (22:17.954)

Mm-hmm.

Natalie Mullin (22:30.483)

So somehow you end up growing up with this like expectation that you know, you have to get married and don’t I did want to get married, but like it was also.

Talk to me like you have to take care of your husband and like that’s the most important thing and all of this so it’s like It’s just like these messages I got growing up. It’s like my identity is connected to This role as being this wife, right? And I remember being like I have to push back on that and I had to like Through therapy talk to my mom and I actually had to stop talking to her for a bit actually because It was like too many messages are like oh just fix it and like oh just tell him you’re sorry And i’m like, don’t you think I tried that like

to me, right? And so sometimes that can be really challenging too, is when other people are getting involved, but you just have to deal with your own stuff. And there does come a point where you have to kind of stand up for yourself and be like, listen.

Nick McGowan (23:16.099)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (23:22.487)

this is what I need or this is what I need to do for myself. And like everybody needs to respect that. And I’m not gonna discuss it. I’m not gonna ask for permission. Like you just have to get to a point where you do what’s best for you. And when you spend time with yourself, that’s the good thing. Self-awareness only comes when you spend time with yourself. And like for me, journaling was really, really helpful. And I’m not like a writer, so I was not really interested in journaling, but I did start and just that release of ideas,

Nick McGowan (23:47.071)

I’m gonna go.

Natalie Mullin (23:52.621)

and emotions, just getting it out was very helpful. And then I could start to process, like, how do I feel? Like, what is going on? Like…

What do, like, how am I here? Like, cause I remember for a long time, I just kept saying like, why me? I’m like, I feel like I’m a good person. Like, I’m like, I don’t feel like I did anything to really deserve this. I couldn’t understand, like, how did I end up in this situation? Like, you know, like you see other, like maybe on celebrities or other people, and you’re like, oh yeah, I knew that they were gonna break. You’re like, oh, it’s about time. I was waiting for that, right? Like, and so, but for me, as I said, I was blindsided. So I was like, it took me so long

Nick McGowan (24:21.494)

Made sense.

Natalie Mullin (24:31.157)

like you can’t just take you can’t take things personally. I’m like it happened to me can happen to anybody it’s not because people are necessarily good or bad it’s just like the way the cookie crumbles sometimes and it’s like get out of your feelings and then okay deal with it because I wasn’t dealing with it for so long and I remember I remember that wellness coach remember she said she said he’s gone you need to accept it and I was like okay.

Nick McGowan (24:56.577)

It got real cold.

Natalie Mullin (24:58.107)

Yeah, she just you know she was like stop telling these like lies and stuff she’s like you’ve got to accept the truth and

Nick McGowan (25:02.446)

stories. Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (25:05.839)

I guess I wasn’t, I was like in denial and I kept hoping. And then there’s a difference between hope and being in denial, right? You can always hope for something to become better in the future, because there’s always a possibility. I’m always an optimist. But at the same time, you do have to accept what is happening in front of you as is in the current situation. And I think that was helpful. Me being more present and just looking around and being like, yeah, she’s right. Like he is gone. Like I really do have to deal with this. I really do have to figure out how do I unwind

Nick McGowan (25:12.504)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (25:23.265)

Mm-hmm.

Natalie Mullin (25:35.653)

and how do I open my own bank account? Like you just have to figure out how do you move forward? Like, you know, you can’t just stay in limbo forever.

Nick McGowan (25:44.358)

We as people constantly grow we evolve and we change and the person that you met and even fell in love with and married Is different today than they were when you did that even if you got married last year or whatever But it’s being able to ebb and flow with yourself and with that other person and have that empathy and understanding and compassion loving and still admiration at times I believe to be able to watch them kind of ebb and flow and work, but for

For a lot of people, I think what you’re talking about is the thing that they go through. And I realized that when I had talked to some friends, people that had gotten divorces, people that had been in marriages for a long time, there are those little lulls. Every relationship has something like that. But there are those people that just go, well, you know, we just grew apart.

Natalie Mullin (26:28.674)

Yep.

Nick McGowan (26:32.43)

It’s like, so you’re basically telling me you didn’t really do anything with it. You just fucking allowed it and let it be and you’re like, well, I guess we’re done and that’s the end of that. And not to slam those people, but in all reality, when I hear that, I think you’re just not, you haven’t done the work or you would have a deeper response to it. Like there’s something that’s deeper there. And if you don’t want to, it’s okay. I mean, it’s your life. You do whatever you want.

Natalie Mullin (26:51.157)

Right.

Nick McGowan (26:57.366)

But there are a lot of people that go through that where, similarly to you, where it’s like, well, nobody cheated on each other. It didn’t kill me. There wasn’t something crazy that happened that was like, oh, yep, that makes total sense. And it’s hard to come to grips with that during the time frame that it’s happening. But it’s really hard to come to grips.

after the fact because we as people look for things like that, right? Like, didn’t you go through that? Think like, well, fuck, what was it? Was it some, it wasn’t anything major than how and why me. So speak to that. Talk to that person that is going through that or listening to this now, going like, yeah, my wife and I, or my husband and I, it’s been, it’s been a while and I don’t feel as connected and I feel detached and I just don’t love them anymore or whatever, but there’s nothing

Natalie Mullin (27:22.646)

Ehh

Nick McGowan (27:49.436)

So how did they get through that? How do they realize that and then what the fuck did they do with it?

Natalie Mullin (27:49.652)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (27:55.115)

So for me, and I can only speak from my perspective, but for me, I think, like I take marriage very seriously and I take, you know, and that it starts from there. Cause to be honest, not everybody enters into a marriage thinking it’s a lifelong commitment. Like I know people who get married and they enter into it as like a, we’ll see how long this goes for. Like they’ve been very…

Nick McGowan (28:14.986)

Isn’t that what dating is for? Hahaha Yeah

Natalie Mullin (28:17.179)

It doesn’t make sense to me. I’m like you could have saved a lot of money, but like, you know I’m like I guess so you have to think about that from the very beginning, right? Like what is your stance on marriage because I realized like even though society still does have

Nick McGowan (28:24.515)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (28:30.527)

Yes, marriages once for life. We see people who are married five and six and seven times. So society is also telling us the complete opposite. So, A, you try to make sure you and your partner are on the same path. But even if you are, it doesn’t mean that somebody else can’t change their mind. Right? And so this is what I mean about what you can and can’t control. At the end of the day, you can only control yourself. So if you feel like you’re disconnected or you feel like you’re detached, it’s like, what things can you do on your end to try to feel

connected like is there efforts that you can put in on your own and I and the thing is I say on your own because a lot of times we try to change the other person and we’ll be like I’m not getting enough affection from you or you’re not spending enough time with me or I don’t think you’re as driven as me right and we’re putting it all on them but something I learned through this was like okay what can I do for my own self how can I find how can I increase fulfillment on my end and how can I increase like my output so as an example

Nick McGowan (29:07.863)

Mm-hmm.

Natalie Mullin (29:30.881)

How can I show it more on my end? How can I focus on my own joy? Because again, a lot of times I think your happiness is connected to that person. And so now, because that person’s, it’s not working out well, now you’ve completely gone by the wayside. It’s like you’ve gotta still take care of yourself and work, during that time I actually think if you work on yourself more, you actually become more attractive to that other person. And they’re like, oh, look at her. She’s dressing up or she’s doing things

for herself, she’s learning new things, she’s smiling more, she’s happier, like and then that can actually bring them bring them back. But I think, I think it’s just like we try to force things that like for me, I was trying to force him back and it just was not working. So that can be my only, like I’m not any expert, but that would be my suggestion is that forcing a person to stay with you or to come back. It doesn’t work. It doesn’t work.

Nick McGowan (30:24.147)

Yeah, that could also lead to a restraining order, jail time, a nice white coat in a circular room. There’s a lot to that. I find it interesting how, first off, you and your husband got back together. What a beautiful thing. And for you guys to be able to feel that and know that you went through what you went through and be able to have the relationship you have now, what a testament to that. So talk to what…

Natalie Mullin (30:31.707)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (30:50.09)

what it looks like for you now to have that relationship, having gone through that.

Natalie Mullin (30:54.463)

Yeah, honestly, it’s so funny because I never thought I would get to a point where I’d say this, because it’s like when you’re going through something, you don’t see the other side of it. And everybody kept telling me like, oh, it’s gonna get better. And I was like, please don’t talk to me. But anyways, what I’ve realized is that going through all of that, like now, like everything is better. Like we are actually, both of us are so grateful that we went through such a bad time. And it was a really bad time.

Nick McGowan (31:06.795)

I’m gonna go.

Natalie Mullin (31:23.819)

because now we came back stronger and we came back because we chose to come back to each other as opposed to just staying together because we felt like we had to. Like this was a conscious choice to come back to. We were in two different countries, okay? I was in Canada, he was in Antigua, right? So it was a conscious choice. So I think that intentionality, it’s like if we could find our way back to each other through all of that, we know to never let things slip that much again to ever get here again. So now it’s like, of course, just like you said, you see lulls, if you notice something, one of us notices something now,

Nick McGowan (31:35.746)

Hehehe

Natalie Mullin (31:53.793)

It’s like we’ll speak about it quickly. We’ll try to address it quickly so that we don’t have to go down that path again. And I think we’ve both just changed as people, like how we show up for our own selves, how we show up for others. Um, now we have a beautiful son, he’s two years old. And so, um, just so grateful like to have him in our lives. And he’s like the example, right? He’s like right in front of us is like the proof. Exactly. So like that is very, uh, meaningful to me. And I think now I just have a stronger desire to.

Nick McGowan (32:14.703)

He’s proof. Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (32:24.373)

Like, okay, push. And just to encourage other people too, because I think sometimes people don’t share those stories and it’s like, you’re just sometimes, if you’re hoping for hope, you wanna see hope somewhere, you know?

Nick McGowan (32:37.635)

Sure. Yeah. What a cool thing, and especially to have your kid that is the proof. I want to talk a little bit at two different ends here, because I think we have a good dynamic where you and your husband went through the separation. There was a thread of divorce. Then you worked through it. You got to where you’re at now, and you have the proof that it’s worked. Hopefully that proof has a long life, just like you and your relationship, and that’s a cool thing that you guys can look back at.

Natalie Mullin (32:41.943)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (32:57.224)

Uh huh.

Natalie Mullin (33:01.354)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (33:05.294)

grandkids or anything like that. The other side of that is where I was and what I went through and where I’m at now. And I think, so I went through a divorce, we were together for eight years, we were married for eight years, so together for almost nine, something like that. When we went through the divorce, I remember being really upset, just like anybody would be, that I thought like I failed and that’s the end of that. Like I didn’t get a divorce or a marriage to get a divorce, but…

Natalie Mullin (33:12.987)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (33:31.008)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (33:34.518)

I remember thinking, well, I failed and thinking, no, I actually just need to do the work. Like I need to get in and do more of the work. And at this point, I now have my partner who I believe to be my twin flame, my absolute match. And it’s about two years or so removed since that situation happened. But there was a lot of work that went through that. I’m thankful for everything I went through because of where I’m at now and what I have now. I wouldn’t have had that if I didn’t go through the divorce, if I didn’t go through the marriage.

Natalie Mullin (33:46.877)

Uh huh.

Natalie Mullin (33:51.681)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (34:02.271)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (34:03.862)

but especially if I didn’t do the fucking work afterwards. And I’m not trying to be braggy or boastful. There was just some really dark times throughout all of that, and some really eye-opening times and things that I needed to do and go through. So for you to be able to go through all that you went through, you’re back together, you have a kid, life is great, you are both growing and going through life together. I needed to go through that divorce to be able to get to the partnership and relationship that I have now that

I feel I was actually supposed to have. And there’s that space in between where I think there are some people in the audience that listen to this that are kind of unsure of like which one it would be. If they were to get a divorce or some people that are afraid of that commitment. If I get a marriage that is rough like my parents, then I don’t wanna look like that. I don’t wanna be in that spot. Or somebody like yourself that had said, well,

Natalie Mullin (34:35.188)

Uh huh.

Natalie Mullin (34:45.906)

Mmm.

Natalie Mullin (34:55.767)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (35:01.138)

it was really important to my mom and therefore it became something that I felt like I should do. And I think that’s really the crux of all of it is like no matter what you’re doing, it shouldn’t be something that you feel you should do for other people, even that other partner. It’s a matter of you doing the work for yourself and being able to do that work and flourish through the rest of the relationship or into a new relationship. So as you went through everything you went through.

Natalie Mullin (35:15.2)

Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (35:30.066)

and thinking about the perspective of you almost didn’t have that. You didn’t have where you were, but you do still have that as part of your history. What do you and your husband do that you feel actually helps you continue to set that foundation and continue to grow your relationship together that you probably wouldn’t have done if you didn’t get back together?

Natalie Mullin (35:55.587)

Yeah, I think that’s an interesting question. And we’re not experts and it’s not like our marriage is perfect or anything, but I do definitely feel like we are.

way more committed, like on a different kind of level. I think when you realize what you could have lost, like it’s present mind still, do you know what I mean? So I think now we’re just like more open about communication and, or at least like I know on my end, like before it’s like, I don’t know, I think we got very kind of young, we were like 25. And I didn’t know we’d have all these silent periods or if one of us got upset, we wouldn’t talk to the other person. And like those things,

Nick McGowan (36:07.438)

Good. Gotcha.

Nick McGowan (36:16.599)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (36:36.233)

You know, they always say like, oh don’t go to sleep upset and I’m like we went to sleep upset very several times I’m not really sure if that okay, whoever that works for fine good for them Sometimes for me I’ve learned it’s better to go because sometimes I would wake up and it’s better. Yeah

Nick McGowan (36:49.142)

Walk the fuck away.

Natalie Mullin (36:52.967)

Um, cause some, yeah, I think that depends on like a person by person situation. But anyways, overall now I will engage in conversations sooner rather than later. So I’m not going to wait like a month or several weeks to be like, Hey, what’s up? It’s like, Hey, let’s just check in. And now even when we check in, we’re, I think just that acknowledgement of the check-in, it’s actually easier for the other person to either bring up whatever their issue is or just release it and say, I don’t want to talk about it, but

Nick McGowan (37:02.743)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (37:22.721)

give me some space and I’m going to be okay. Whereas if we didn’t have that check-in, they would just hold on to it and it festers. And that’s the problem is when things fester and they get worse and worse and bigger and bigger in one person’s head and the other person has no clue what’s going on. And then how can you ever fix things, right? It’s like you’re on two different pages and you don’t even know it. So I think those check-ins are really important and just…

you know, society doesn’t allow us to spend as much time together with our loved ones as we’d like. Like people are working, people are busy, people have different hours, different schedules and stuff, but just finding a way to stay connected through that all. You talked about like people grow at different paces and people are interested in doing different things and I think marriage is really interesting or just a partnership in general because you have your own goals, your own ambitions and desires and so does that person and

in a partnership, it’s like, how do we let both people thrive and go where they need to go? But can we also collectively still go somewhere together? Right? And I think that’s the thing because sometimes you’re on a path and the other person’s like going the opposite direction and it’s like, well, good luck. But it doesn’t mean you have to be hand in hand doing the exact same things. Like I think there’s like a, we can both be moving this direction, but like I’m in this lane and this lane, but we’re both still going together.

Nick McGowan (38:30.595)

Thanks for watching!

Natalie Mullin (38:44.805)

of figure out how to navigate both people’s growth. Some peoples might be really fast at certain points and another person’s a little bit slower, but if you’re headed in the same direction it’s still…

Okay, but I think we have to give grace to other people. Like we can’t just assume our partner is gonna have the exact same drive or the exact same vision or the exact same hustle as us. We have to accept them for who they are and not try to change them into us. I think that’s, I think that’s like, I think a lot of us, including myself before, you just want that person to be like the same like you and it doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t work. Like you have to let them be them.

Nick McGowan (39:18.103)

Yeah. And if you have similarities, that’s great. But also understanding that there are times where some of that will change, that will flow, just like your life goes. So how is all this related to and impacted the way that you handle your wellness business?

Natalie Mullin (39:33.787)

Yeah, so you know what, for me, I mostly work with women. So I’m usually working with ambitious women. Most of them are entrepreneurs. Some of them are women professionals who might want to start a business or maybe not. But I am very empathetic towards women who are trying to balance it all or whatever it all is for them.

And I feel like a lot of the women I work with just feel like disconnected, either from themselves, like they feel like they’re on the back burner because they’ve put everybody else’s needs ahead of themselves, especially if they’re moms, then they’re like, Oh, the kids and all the partner and all the job and whatever. And they tend to put themselves behind. And then others, they just feel like, I guess.

a lack of sense of direction. And I’m really empathetic towards that because I feel like when I was at my lowest, I had no clue, like, what do I even want out of life? But because I was able to spend that time with myself, I was able to figure out self-awareness and have that kind of blueprint, like a roadmap to move forward. Well, I built it as I go on. Like, this is now what I’m able to help, like, other women with. And so it’s like supporting them and saying, hey, you can build a roadmap for the life that you want.

Nick McGowan (40:34.638)

Thank you.

Natalie Mullin (40:45.337)

be perfect. Like I can’t offer that and nobody can. But if you at least have a vision, you have clarity on what it is you want out of life, it helps you make choices because you realize what’s in and out of alignment for you. And it’s all about the mindset, right? It’s like if you have a mindset where you are like I’m open to grow, to growth, I’m open to learning, I’m open to being flexible and adaptable, like you’ll just go a lot further in life. But if you have this

Natalie Mullin (41:15.337)

to me and this is the fate that I’ve been dealt and I can’t change it. Well then you’re right, like your life is never going to change to be honest because you’re going to keep yourself down, right? So I think like that’s the most work I actually do with women. It’s on the mindset because once you can believe in yourself and believe in your dreams and believe in possibility,

you can go where you want to. And I’m not saying you get there like the next day, but at least you can be confident that you’re going in the right direction. And that alone brings fulfillment.

Nick McGowan (41:45.574)

Oh, yeah. And I think it goes hand in hand with self-awareness. It takes that mental fortitude to be able to have the self-awareness, but it also takes a self-awareness to be able to look at your mental strength and do something with it and then start to kind of take the action from that. Obviously, I’m a big fan of mindset. But I know that it’s

Natalie Mullin (41:49.792)

Hehe.

Natalie Mullin (42:07.104)

through it.

Nick McGowan (42:09.23)

It’s not all about mindset though. And I’ve had some people call me out on that. Like, well, you can’t just mindset your way through everything. I’m like, especially when it comes to trauma. Like you actually have to get that shit out of your cells.

Natalie Mullin (42:20.471)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (42:21.842)

and you have to actually go through and process through it. But like you had said, you need to be able to be aware of that and have that attitude shift within your mindset to go, all right, well, maybe there is a possibility or there is something or shit, maybe there is something that’s holding me back that happened years ago that I’m just unaware of because I’ve locked it away. And when you really dig into it, I find it so fascinating how the brain is like, this shit’s real and tough. You’re not gonna look at this. Here’s some bubblegum stuff to look at or something. And you’re ready.

Natalie Mullin (42:24.011)

Yep.

Natalie Mullin (42:29.739)

No.

Natalie Mullin (42:49.476)

Yeah. You’ve got to push past it. And that’s the thing. Like to me, mindset is just step one, because with mindset comes action. And it’s only if you take action on the things that you’re learning, the things that you’re discovering, can you make any kind of change. Right? So it’s like, you can have the awareness of like, okay, I went through trauma.

Nick McGowan (42:51.897)

and then be able to go through it.

Natalie Mullin (43:11.319)

Okay, so what are you gonna unlearn and what can you do differently? What doors do you need to close? What people do you need to cut off? What do you who do you need to apologize to? Who do you need to forgive? Like how do you move forward? I like this is I think this is really why I got into coaching because coaching is all about like therapy is great But I found for me it’s like I could only do therapy to an extent because I’m like I can’t stay in the past And I just felt like I was I’m like I’ve dealt I’ve dealt with it all

or at least all for now, but I’m like, I need to move forward now. Like I can’t just keep reliving the trauma. Like I wanna move forward. So like coaching is action driven and it’s forward momentum of like, what can you do now? Now that you have that information, now that you’ve done the work, you’ve healed, you’ve, you know, you’ve done what you need to do. You’ve worked on yourself. How do you move forward and be a better version of yourself? Like how do you make sure you don’t have the situation repeat?

Nick McGowan (44:09.035)

Mm-hmm.

Natalie Mullin (44:09.173)

traumas if you become a parent how do you make sure you don’t repeat those same traumas?

with your children, right? Or how do you make sure that something you heal from, you don’t reopen that wound like 10 years later and then go through the whole thing all over again. So it’s like being able to put, being intentional about putting preventative actions in place that you actually grow from this and you act, you just, you kind of, you just, it’s like, I would describe my experience of like that depression and that lull as like being in a pit, but it’s like when I get out that pit, like I climbed up and I’m gone.

Nick McGowan (44:16.053)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (44:44.305)

Like that is sealed up. I’m not going back there. And I have been very intentional about how I live my life so that I never do get back to that point. To be honest, like even if…

my husband and I were, God forbid, for something to happen to us and it didn’t work out. Like, I don’t think I’d ever get to that same low again, because now my whole identity is not like in him, like, you know what I mean? So I’ve healed like a lot of that already. So it’s like, of course, it would be a setback, but it wouldn’t be as detrimental, I guess, to my life. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (45:08.759)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (45:19.042)

sure, then it’s only because you went through what you went through and the awareness and the wellness that you’ve gone through and all these things, they all stack together but it takes us actually going through and kind of sifting through that shit. So along those lines, what’s that one piece of advice you’d give to somebody on their path towards self-mastery?

Natalie Mullin (45:21.738)

Yeah.

Natalie Mullin (45:38.307)

I would say it’s along the lines of self-awareness, but I would say spend quiet time with yourself. And the reason I say this is because a lot of times we think of self-awareness or we think of self-help or personal development and we’re listening to podcasts or we’re listening to reading books and listening to TV and all that, and all of that’s good. But there comes a point where you just need to quiet the noise and it’s just like you.

and like yourself. And you just need to think, like you just need quiet and you need to figure out who are you. Like at the core, who are you as a person? What are your beliefs? What are your values? What are your goals? What are your strengths? What are your weaknesses? Like you just need to reconnect with your own self. And I think you can only do that effectively from a place of solitude. I do suggest that if you can write it all down and just get a baseline for…

who you are or for where you’re at in life, right? Like, cause maybe you don’t even know who you are, but like, if, and maybe that’s too deep to start with, but then just start with like, how are you feeling right now? Like when you assess your life, what are the different areas? How do you feel in your career? How do you feel in your finances? How do you feel in your spirituality? How do you feel in your relationships? How do you feel in your body? How do you feel your nutrition is? Just get a baseline for how you are right now.

And then check in with yourself. How do you feel about where you’re at right now? Like, are you pleased with it? Are you like, OK, I’m good. I’m happy to see this is where I’m at. Or are you concerned? And you’re like, oh, man, like, I’m actually a little bit disappointed that I realize I’m so far behind in this one area. Or maybe you’re surprised and you’re like, oh, I’m actually doing really well in this area. I didn’t even realize. But until you get a baseline and can kind of assess where you’re at,

it’s really hard to figure out what to work on. Like, it’s like you need that data. Like you need the data, you need information. And then whatever, when you’ve done that and you figure it out, then just choose one small area to start working on. Because I think in life, like sometimes we’re like trying to do so many changes and we just wanna become like a brand new person overnight. And it’s like, no, it’s not gonna happen. We have to give ourselves grace. We’re just people at the end of the day. Everybody’s just trying their best. So give yourself grace, but think of like, okay,

Nick McGowan (47:24.494)

Sure.

Natalie Mullin (47:50.149)

one area that you realize like, you know, I’m not that happy with this. What’s one small step that I can take to improve my own self? What’s one small thing I could do to work on myself? And that might look like external support. It might look like therapy. It might look like a coach. It might look like going to the gym. It might look like talking to a friend. It might look like getting outside. Like it’s going to be different for everybody.

but just figure out what’s one small step you can take. And then once you figure that out, then do another small step and another small step and just take yourself through that journey. We have resources, we have this podcast, we have YouTube, we have other podcasts, like we have books. There are things that you can use to help you along that journey, but you’ve got to be the one to start it. Nobody can start that journey for you.

Nick McGowan (48:38.402)

great way to end that. You’re right, you’re right. You have to do it and it’s it does take people and it took me a long time to actually understand that I just had to be able to do those things and sometimes those things is just opening up.

to yourself and saying this really sucks or this hurts or every time this happens this makes me feel this sort of way and working through that and understanding. Natalie it’s been a pleasure to have you on the show. I appreciate your time. Before we let you go, where can people find you and where can they connect with you?

Natalie Mullin (49:03.415)

Thank you.

Natalie Mullin (49:07.419)

Yeah, so they can find me on Instagram, Natalie Mullen, and my website is nataliemullen.com and also on LinkedIn, guess what? Natalie Mullen. So yeah, check me out. Oh, I also have my own podcast. It’s called From a Full Cup. So it is a mental wellness and mindset and personal development podcast for women. But men, if you’re listening, it’s all good too.

Nick McGowan (49:18.506)

Awesome.

Nick McGowan (49:31.961)

Well, I’m glad that you brought that up. I was going to say, like, you can’t forget that you’re a podcast host as well.

Natalie Mullin (49:35.619)

I know. I almost did forget, but I remembered in the end.

Nick McGowan (49:40.528)

Well again, thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate it.

Natalie Mullin (49:42.176)

Yeah, thank you for having me.