Podcast Burnout: How to Keep Your Show Sustainable – PCI 483

0:02 - Welcome to Podcast Insider. My name is Mackenzie - Bennett. I'm here with Mike and Dave, all - from the Blueberry team. Thanks for joining me, - guys. - Yeah. - Yeah. Good to be here, - as usual. - Yeah. We're getting back in the swing of - things with this podcast - and, - trying to make it a little bit easier - on ourselves and, hopefully, a little bit more - enjoyable for you guys' listeners. - Today, we've got - burnout podcast burnout. And how do you stop - that from happening? Why, - in general, like, how does that work? We've - all been doing podcasts for a long, long - time now, so I think we all have - a bit to say about it.

0:44 - Yeah. For sure. - Great minds, man. We're just Mike and I - are just gonna mimic each other the whole - time. We're gonna say the exact same things. - That's what we're here for. - Well, you know, my my history of podcasting - is I start a lot of shows - and then stop a lot of shows. - And and a lot of times, it is - burnout. - Not that you know, I I don't feel - overworked - necessarily, - but just sometimes you burn out on the - topic. - Mhmm. You know, in my case, you know, - I - I started a show about - something, and then, you know, - six months down the road, that something isn't - as interesting as it once was.

1:29 - And, you know, that can be a source - of burnout. - You know, another one that I've run across, - not necessarily me, but, you know, a schedule. - You know? Oh my gosh. We gotta get - a show out today. You know? And that - can be trying, especially when life happens. - Yeah. Those are probably - two of the most common things that - I've heard talking to podcasters - and running into that myself. - And I am a person who - will bounce from excited idea to excited idea. - So I've actually gotten to a point where - I'm like, I do not create a new - podcast unless I know that I will, you - know, - be able to focus on it - and - spend quality time - producing it because - I I will - I'll jump ship so fast.

2:22 - It it's bad when when, like, you know, - here, we can be like, yeah. I'm gonna - start a show as a test or something - like that, and we can do that willy - nilly. And I've created and - deleted I don't know how many shows in - the last eight years. It's crazy. - To be honest, I feel like both of - you have a bit of a case of, - podcast abandonment. - Well yeah. - Sorta, kinda. - There's no I mean, that's totally fine. But, - also, at the same time, like, do you - think maybe that's happened because you did start - a show that - then you got burnout on? - Yeah. Well, like I said, in my case, - it's, - you know, either I - overcommit - to a schedule or I find something that - I'm really interested in for a short period - of time.

3:08 - You know what I mean? - But, - you know, like my normal - show that I do, I I don't have - a schedule. - I don't have a particular topic, - and - I don't do it particularly often. But I - do - still do it. - But I've built that one in such a - way that I can't burn out on it - because if I don't feel like making a - podcast, I just don't make one - for for that, - that show. - I think, you know, like I said, the - biggest thing is overcommitting to a schedule - or - overcomplicating - your process. - Sometimes it's just good to flip the mic - on and talk. That's what we're doing with - this one somewhat - these days, - where, you know, we're not doing - massive show prep. We're not doing - massive postproduction.

4:00 - You know? We're just, - you know, three of us getting on here - and shooting the breeze about a particular subject - around podcasting. - Mhmm. - So it's gonna be harder to burn out - on something like this - than it would be, you know, a very - formatted show where you you need to do - it at in segments and all. And there's - nothing wrong with with doing all of that. - In fact, you know, you probably have good - success with that. But, you know, just beware - how much - effort has to be put in and are - do you wanna do that on a sustained - basis? - Yeah. I think for me, - I love having ideas. - I love daydreaming and going, oh, this is - this is a cool thing I could do.

4:44 - I have the resources to do it - through my job at Blueberry. - And that's typically where - those shows that, like, existed for one episode - and then disappeared, - that's usually where they come from. Because I - will get hyperfixated - on - some topic. And I'm like, oh, I could - talk about this for hours and hours on - end, so let's build a podcast around that. - And - then I kind of stop after I've, you - know, spent hours making artwork and recording the - first episode and editing the first episode. And - then I'm just like, okay. - This idea doesn't feel fun anymore. Let's move - on. - So that's that's part of my - my reasoning for - dropping shows.

5:29 - So I don't know if it's burnout necessarily. - It's pod food. - Yeah. I mean, I have like, I did - do so my very first show, - that I stopped doing, and I did burn - out on that. And the reason so that - was a, like, movie review comic book, you - know, super nerdy thing. - I stopped doing that because I wasn't burn - out with doing a podcast. I got burned - out because - the culture around - movie reviewing - became just so toxic that I was just - like, this is not enjoyable - anymore. - And then the other, you know, the d - and d podcast, - that stopped because just - we didn't have the the time to keep - doing it. So it's like, I think burnout - to me - is multiple things. It's not just one, - it's not one formula that leads to burnout.

6:25 - So what do we think - helps - prevent you from getting burned out and stopping - your show perhaps? Is it - taking a hiatus for a month, you know, - kinda take a sabbatical maybe? - Is - it changing it to less episodes? Is it - changing the format? Like, is it a little - bit of everything? - Yeah. I I think it's a little everything. - And, again, it's, like, it's unique to that - person in that show. - Like Mike was saying, like, Podcast Insider, - we're gonna keep doing it because - we do it for the company. You know? - We do it for our customers. - So it's a little harder to be like, - oh, I'm burned out. But we just took - a hiatus. You know? We took a break - because, like, - this doesn't necessarily feel good to be putting - out.

7:14 - So let's - let's come back to it in a little - bit when we feel a little better and - a little bit more comfortable. So I think - that is a version of burnout. - And so re you know, changing the format - of the show - has, I think, helped us. And, you know, - we've been doing some work behind the scenes - to go, okay. Can we be a little - bit more intentional instead of, - oh, we're just gonna turn on mics on, - and whatever we talk about, we talk about. - You know, like, with with my I have - a daily show, and I I'm not pod - fading it, but I've been on hiatus for - a month and a half. - And I am coming back to it. - Uh-huh. - Okay. No. I'm going to. I'm going to.

7:57 - But and and the daily one was, you - know, five minute - or so - daily local show. - And, - you know, I I can flip on the - mic right now and record one. It would - take no time at all. - And and, you know, and I've purposely made - it so that I - don't have a huge - postproduction. - I don't have - a huge preproduction. You know? I find the - topic I wanna talk about, talk about it - for five minutes, read the weather, and call - it a day. - And Right. Yeah. And that's, you know, it's - super easy. And and that's you know, I - designed it that way, so I wouldn't burn - out. You know, a daily show is hard - to do. I don't care how short it - is.

8:40 - And, you know, so - to avoid burnout, you know, be realistic - in your schedule. - Weekly seems to be the sweet spot. You - know, most people can have the same amount - of time every week, but, you know, there's - times when that doesn't work. So, you know, - maybe - plan ahead, record an extra one to throw - in on the weeks that, you know, your - regular schedule - doesn't allow for you to do it if - you wanna keep on a strict schedule or - don't set a strict schedule. - I mean, I I listen to a lot - of shows that, you know, I just never - know when I'm gonna get an episode, and - that's okay. - It's not - ideal. It's not best practice, - but it works.

9:24 - You know? And it works for the creator. - I mean, it's very popular to happen over - the summer, though. Yeah. Summer and holidays. - Mhmm. - Those are definitely the two that get away - from people. They're like, oh, I had all - the intentions in the world to do this, - but I just got busy doing something else. - That's just the way the world works. - And I think to kinda go back to - the question you asked, Mackenzie, about, - like, preventing it. - I think a a lot of it is - it's kind of funny. Like, for me, the - more that I do, - like, our video content, - the more I I think about the processes - people are taking to make their show. And - a lot of what I see is, - especially with new creators, - they are they think they have to do - all of the things on day one.

10:14 - They, you know, they have to be doing, - you know, high end video production. They have - to have all of their music and sound - effects and, like, all of the things. And - it has to be perfect on day one. - And - I think - that - they kinda get in their own heads about - it. And - by, - you know, episode three, episode five, that they're - just not having fun with it anymore. And - I know not everybody podcasts to have fun, - but there has to be an element of - enjoyment - when you're making a show, even for for - work. Like, we have to enjoy talking to - each other, - and presenting - the company - to our audience.

10:57 - But I think a lot of creators we - I I see this all the time when - I'm - on Reddit and on social looking for stuff. - It's just people like, oh, here are, like, - 15 things I need. - Can you give me more suggestions of more - things that I need - rather than just going, okay. This is episode - one. It's not gonna be perfect, but I'm - looking ahead to what I want episode 25 - or 100 to be. - I I think it a lot of it - is a mindset thing, - and - you don't know you're going to burn out - in those beginning days - because you're not thinking about the later days. - Does that make any sense at all? Yeah. - Yeah. For sure. I took the long way - around to explain that like usual.

11:40 - You you start a podcast and then you - slowly start to lose the horizon sometimes. - Yeah. Yeah. Well, you didn't you think too - far ahead. You know? And that's, - I guess, not bad. You know, long term - planning is - is not necessarily a bad thing, but - Yeah. Talk you know, think thinking about what - you're gonna do six episodes from now, - maybe - realistic, may maybe not. You know? With this - one, we're gonna try to, you know, stay - topical to what's going on in the industry - and what's going on around Blueberry and what's - going on, you know, with us individually. - So - it probably would be hard to plan it - out too far in advance, - though we do have a list of - of - proposed topics for, each of our recording sessions, - and there's nothing wrong with that. And and - but we can switch it up if we - need to. And that's the other thing to - avoid burnout. Switch it up some. You know, - do something different.

12:42 - You know, don't stick to a format - that is becoming - hard for you to do. You know? Maybe - do something completely different for one episode. - You know, on one of my shows, when - the AI voice thing was happening and before - it was turned it called - AI Slop, - I thought, what the heck? So I cloned - my voice on, on one of the AIs - and - and then wrote a script and had the - thing read it. And - okay. Yeah. You know, I don't wanna put - that out all the time, but I thought - that was pretty cool. You know, and it - definitely did not sound like I mean, it - sounded like me, but did not sound like - the way I normally talk. - You know? And it was obviously AI, and - I - said it right there. This is AI. I'm - playing with it.

13:27 - But, you know, do something experimental. - You know, if you don't do video, maybe - throw a video up one time. - Why not? - Now I'm actually curious, - Mackenzie, to hear burnout from your point of - view when it comes to podcasting because you've - been doing the company show for a long - time. Yeah. - Yeah. I should say company shows. - It's same show, different title. I think that's - the - the essence of it. So PowerPress podcast. You - you know, we threw you to the wolves - and said, here. Do this. - So yeah. I mean, - whenever I was doing, pod or the PowerPress - podcast, - I started doing that for Blueberry in - spring of twenty fifteen.

14:17 - And I think it was - 2018, 2019 - when - when Todd came to me, and he was - like, - you're done. He was like he he's like - he he's like, you're not saying you're done, - but, like, I can tell that you are - with it. - I you know, - I was like, well, I'm not gonna tell - my boss that I'm done with this right - now, but that is he was correct - in in, you know, changing courses because I - was done with it. - It was just one of those things that - at the end of the day, I was - like, I've been doing this for a couple - years. I'm having trouble getting guests. I don't - enjoy - the recording setup that we have currently in - this office for it. I was just like, - it's not - a joy - in my workday anymore.

15:02 - And for many years, you know, on and - off over these times, like, that has definitely - been a joy doing the podcast. - And at that time, it was it definitely - was not, and I - he could tell that I was burnt out - on it for sure. - Yeah. So - I got a break for a while there. - Todd and Mike did a show - that I - honestly forget the name of right now. - And then Was it your podcast? - Yeah. That's what it was. It was your - pod you guys did that for a while. - Yeah. It was it was definitely your podcast. - It's still in the system somewhere. - But after that, we you know? And then - you guys did that for a couple years, - and then we hit, - COVID.

15:48 - And and you guys were like, alright. We - need to change it up. It's been a - couple years. - The two of us are burnout doing this. - Let's add it. Let's bring Mackenzie back into - this. - Give it some new life again because that - is kinda what you have to do every - couple of years if, you know, if you're - doing a show - once a week or so for all for - that amount of time, you do need to - change things up like you guys said. - So I think it's all, you know, from - that perspective, - maybe advocate for yourself and for the show - better - because I don't think I was doing that. - I think I was just like, oh, - drag it. Like, being pulled along for a - minute there, and, I probably should've just spoken - up. I mean, Todd would've been fine with - it. I just, like, didn't go with that - battle.

16:35 - Yeah. I I know, like, Todd was always - the advocate for - you never take a break. You do an - episode every week unless - you absolutely cannot. And I remember, like, when - I started working here just being like, I - can't do that. Like Yeah. That that that - makes me uncomfortable. - Like, I have to take breaks. Like, I - have I have a family that needs me - to, like, - do all of the the family things. I - you know? And - that's not a slight against Todd in the - least. It was just he had the ability - to just - go. - And - I I think my advice now - would be - build in some breaks - into your - show. Like, if it's if it's close to, - like, Thanksgiving and Christmas here in The US, - just take a break or prerecord so that - maybe there is something or there's something special - because you're gonna be busy those times of - year. So - so take a break so that - it just it's good for you, but it's - also working for your audience. And then also - make sure that you're taking a vacation.

17:44 - Again, you can work ahead if you don't - wanna miss a single week if you're doing - weekly. But, - yeah, like you said, advocate for yourself - because that is going to - help the the show in the end. - Yeah. I don't think I ever really thought - about it until - until now, but that's - that's definitely part of it. You know? It's, - those guilt free breaks that you give yourself. - I don't know what that is. - Well, you know, in this and you you - mentioned it before, Mackenzie, - summertime, - you know, - at least in the Northern Hemisphere, - is, - you know, a time where there's a lot - of busy happening.

18:26 - You know, people travel, people have vacations, they - go to the beach, they got, you know, - lawn work to do, all the - stuff that kinda gets in the way. - There's no there's no shame in taking a - you know, take a week off, take a - couple weeks off, - from your podcast if that's what you wanna - do. - Yeah. - Again, you know, - pick pick a crappy day and record four - episodes, and then you know? - There there's there's ways around it if you - wanna keep on schedule. And, you know, best - practice is to be on some sort of - schedule so people know when to expect episodes, - but it's not a requirement. - And, you know, again, there's no rules in - podcasting, really.

19:08 - Do do what works for you if you - wanna keep doing it. - And I think another thing is, like and - I think we're gonna talk about this in - the future. But - we've seen in podcasting this - uptick in people who are - making a show - as a side gig. You know? Well, let - me let me make some money doing something - that I'm enjoying doing. - And I think sometimes - when - that is how - you're framing it because I I kinda ran - into this with the - the show I just got done doing where - I was like, I don't know. This is - kind of the thing that I would love - to do for a living. I I love - helping podcasters, but, like, producing this real fun - audio drama, that would just be, like, that - would be the dream job.

19:59 - And so it's really easy to - get yourself - working so much on that thing and working - toward that dream that is way far - down the way - that you burnout will sneak up on you. - You know, especially when you're like, well, this - is a way for me to bring in - some extra money. - You know, things are tight. Like, I I'm - not gonna deny that. - But - sometimes that just kinda clouds your judgment. So - I would recommend, - you know, keep that keep that dream - living on your wall, - but also, like, don't - don't sacrifice yourself, - to get to that dream. You know? Don't - hurt yourself. Otherwise, you're just not gonna make - it to that dream.

20:43 - Yeah. That's, what is it? - You know? - Something is on fire, but you don't have - to burn yourself down. - Awesome. Along those lines, - don't let your podcast be that. - I guess so we don't burn out. Let's, - cut this episode short. - Just, - yeah, I guess the the takeaway I I - would come from this is just, - you know, do do what works for you. - If you need to take a break, take - a break. If you need to change your - schedule, change the show format, do - do do whatever it takes - to, - make it so you know, or change topics.

21:24 - I've had shows that I've listened to that - did change topics over the years. You know, - if you're doing a show about cats, don't - start doing a show about horses on the - same feed. That's kinda weird. But but, you - know, change up the topic, - maybe a little bit. You know, like, with - us, you know, we when we were doing - your podcast, it was all you know, it's - kinda like what we're doing here, - talking about - things that podcasters should think about, or we - talked about that kind of thing. When we - switched it to Podcast - Insider for the first bit of it, we - were doing a lot of topical news. - And then we kinda got away from that - in in one of our revamps. And, you - know, so, you know, changing the topic up - a little bit is not a bad idea - either.

22:09 - Like you said, Mike, like, there's not really - any rules. You have to do what works - for you and do what works for your - audience. But Yeah. Don't don't hit this burnout - wall so hard that you just you're done. - Because I think we have some really good - podcasters - out there that, - you know, they just they burn out, and - they're just like, I'm done. I'm over it. - And I've I've been one of those people - for the longest time. You know, when I - stopped doing the show I was doing, I - was just like, I can't do another one. - I can't put that much of myself into - something - just - to burn out like that. So learn learn - from my mistakes. - Yeah. - We at Blueberry would like nothing less than - for you guys to, crash and burn with - your podcast. So - I would say lean on the lean on - the support team every once in a while - if you have to as well to figure - out, you know, like, maybe how could I - make this easier on myself with - with how do I publish this? Like, how - do I get this scheduled to publish it - later? How do I, like, make my life - easier with this with the tools that I - already have?

23:13 - Because that's also a big part of it - is, you know, - setting up whatever type of system works for - you can definitely - be easier with something that Blueberry offers is - my guess. Yeah. We got a lot of - tools, and maybe - you maybe you didn't know you could schedule - episodes, but you can. And that's always a - great thing to do when when possible. I - I mean, that's what I'm gonna do later - this month when I am on the beach, - and the last thing I'm thinking about is - a podcast. - Right. - Besides maybe the one that I'm listening to, - but certainly not this one. Right. - Alright, guys. Thanks for listening. We are podcast - insider. We'll talk to you in a couple - of weeks.