Grow Your Podcast on Social – PCI 312

0:10 Hey, everyone. Welcome to podcast insider. My name is Todd Cochran. Of course. I'm joined by Michael who? Mr. Mike Dell. Mike, how you doing? Doing good. Getting through some technical glitches, but I think we are, uh, on track. Yeah, I've had a one of those mornings. I'd rather not repeat . So basically we have a team access accountant, apple as part of some of our new integration. Mm-hmm and let me just tell you apple really believes in security and it's an absolute pain, absolute pain to add new members to that group account. And I'm just pulling my hair out. So I'm, I'm at a point where I have to email the friends at apple and say, Hey, I'm I can't, I can't do this. So help help me out here. Yeah. So, uh, we'll see. We'll see what happens, but anyway, Hey everyone. Welcome. .

0:56 Yeah. And, uh, got some good news for you today. Of course we have best practice. We have some stuff going on with blueberry and, uh, we got a blueberry pro tip and we've got a long interview that we're playing at the end of the show on a question of the week. So really we'll jump right in here to, uh, what's going on in the news and she podcast, uh, they they've moved it. Yeah, it was supposed to be in October and now it's gonna be June 19th through the 22nd of 2023 in, in Washington, DC. So they made the, uh, the choice to, to move it, uh, cuz of, uh, who knows, but it was a hard decision for 'em I'm sure. And, uh, it'll be best for attendees and the, the conference itself.

1:48 Yeah. I was kind of concerned about that event because it was, you know, that I've stayed at that MGM before and it's not in inexpensive hotel to stay at probably three, $400 a night. Yeah. That's what they charged there and if they got a good room, right. That's great. But I just wonder if they didn't have as many people sign up for the event as what they thought they were going to. So, but uh, you know, it's a great event. I'm I wish them the best of luck in getting reorganized and, and uh, you know, going next year. Yeah. And, uh, you know, June's probably a better time to travel in October for most people since, uh, you know, school's out and all that good stuff. So. Well, it's usually the opposite when school's out, you got all the kids so true on vacation. So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's one of those things that you have to time it pretty well.

2:37 And it's hard to do that, but hopefully they're able to, uh, to make it happen. iOS 16 is out and the iPad OS has been delayed. So, uh, I'm sure everyone's been updating their, their phones. And for those of you that are apple users. It wasn't as obvious as, as normal updates. When I went to, to do it, you had to manually select, you wanted to go to iOS 16, uh, versus updating iOS 15 to whatever version. So I think that it they're slow in the role a little bit. Uh, but I like it, it, uh, it definitely makes the lock screen look different. And, uh, there's a lot of, uh, lot of little, little things. And of course they, uh, redesigned the podcast app. I, I haven't had a lot of time to play with that yet.

3:22 Yeah. I usually wait a little while for those releases to come out before I punch, because there's usually something found by the broader masses, but I probably wait a couple days and do the jump. You know, both of us use the, a desktop version of, of phonic. And we were both concerned that the Mac em version, in other words, work running on the Mac M one M two chip was gonna be an issue because prior to this, the Aon, uh, application was basically not working with the, uh, Mac M one or M two. And, uh, but apparently they made a change without making announcements. So if you're using the desktop version, you can re-download it now.

4:03 Yep. As long as you have your ionic log in and you've paid for the desktop version, uh, we'll have a link in the show notes, but, uh, just download it. It's still gonna be marked as version 1.8. So they didn't, uh, increment the version number, but, uh, which is weird. Yeah, it is weird, but it does, it works. I've, uh, I've used it a couple times already and, and, uh, I have to attest, it works like it used to. I bet you, it's a marketing decision, to be honest with you because a lot of people don't know you can buy ionic, desktop mm-hmm and then you don't pay by the hour. It's you one time you're one and done. Yeah. And you know, I've been using that Aon desktop now for years.

4:47 Yeah. And paid, well, I paid the, I think the commercial version was, was the three. Months, like 300. Yeah. 300 bucks or something. And, and the non commercials, like 95 or something like that. Yeah. 88, I think the last I looked. But that's, that's a much, much cheaper way to go and you don't have to upload it does everything. The online service supposedly does it's. Way quicker and. And yeah. You know, it's three minutes I'm done really, you know, waiting for the file to be, uh, to be normalized. But yeah. So, uh, those of you that were kind of worried about Aon, not working on a new Mac and it seems to be, I I'm almost sure that's why they quietly updated.

5:30 Probably people were complaining yeah. That it didn't work. So. Yeah, that's, that's one of a couple things that I've had that, uh, don't work on the M one, but, uh, for the most part, I've not run into any, any issues. There's some news here from the Brooking Institute and I think their conservative nature to begin with Brookings, Institute's found that conservative podcasters release more episodes than liberal podcasters. That's a, are they talking about political shows or. Yeah. And, and what they're talking about is, you know, the, of the political shows and they, uh, you know, did a, a survey of the system to see, you know, which shows put out the most episodes. And, you know, so far this, you know, in their, uh, study period here, they, uh, they said that, uh, conservative podcasters tend to podcast more episodes than the liberal ones, but it's, it's interesting.

6:24 Our best practices this week podcast promotion, isn't a one size fits all. And, uh, there's a group that is posted a, uh, article that's from podcast marketing it's dot com mm-hmm , uh, that talks about 4.5 things. Everyone wants to know about podcast promot. That's kind of interesting 4.5. I thought that was kinda weird, but, uh, they go into a lot more, uh, in the article, I was gonna put this in the news section and, uh, McKenzie talked me into putting it in here. So , but, uh, it, you know, it goes, so it's a decent article. It goes through, uh, you know, questions and answers basically, uh, you know, how, how to promote your show.

7:04 And they're talking about, uh, stuff like, uh, newsletters and, and, uh, do, uh, you know, doing podcast, you know, where you put your show into somebody else's feed like Toby was talking about. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, that is a, a way that they talk about and, you know, but there's a lot of different examples of, uh, good and bad I. I, you know, again, I, I think I would be real careful on doing episode swaps. Mm-hmm , you know, if you are going to do an episode swap where you tell another where you put your show in another podcast episode, where you take someone else's show and put it as an episode in yours, you need to have forewarn your audience and get buy in. Yeah. Because my, I suggested it to my audience and they revolted. They said, no, we will unsubscribe. We will leave. That's a brute bro of trust.

8:01 We don't wanna hear from someone else we're subscribe to your show. We don't wanna hear someone else's show. So the audience was pretty loud about it, at least for my podcast. So I, I, I don't mind running a promo, let's say a 32nd, 62nd, two minute promo for another show. Mm-hmm but to do a full episode swap, man, I, I think you're really, a lot of people think that's the greatest way to go, but I, I just don't know. I, I think some shows are maybe more open to it than others. Right. But I've got an older audience that spend with me for years. They don't want to be subjected to something else. Yeah. And I find it jarring sometimes too, when, you know, like I listen to some shows on bigger networks and every once in a while, they'll just drop an episode of a different show in there. And, and you know, a lot of times they just skip it, but.

8:50 Yeah, I will, I will leave out unsubscribe personally because it's, you you're wasting my time. Yeah. You know, so I think that's, uh, one of the things you have to be careful from a, from a content creator standpoint of just dropping a full episode in, but anyway, we'll move on, uh, a little bit of blueberry news. We're having a power press webinar on the 20th. So everything you need to know about power press. Yep. That's the, the one that I do usually monthly and, and figured we'd promote it a little bit here ahead of time and maybe get some more people showing up. Uh, you know, we've got a lot of new stuff in power press and, uh, and I, I take you through that stuff.

9:35 So even if you're already using power press and just wanna refresh on what's new, you know, drop in. The international podcast day is back, the team is doing a live. Uh, they took a year off mm-hmm , they're coming back with not 30 hours of content, but I think around 12 hours. Yeah. Something like that. Yep. And, uh, we are the headline sponsor for international podcast day international podcast, day.com. The live, uh, livestream schedule is, uh, is available on the, on the website. We've got it linked up. I will be presenting the same presentation. I gave it podcast movement, basically 18 years in podcasting and growth strategies that'll happen at the end of the, uh, the live event. So I hope that you'll join us or even me, when I do that at same day, we have the, the podcast awards, uh, ceremony is happening at 9:00 PM, uh, Eastern 6:00 PM Pacific. And.

10:31 You're doing that separately, uh. This year. Yeah, it's separately, but it'll be a couple hours after the international podcast day stream shuts down. Okay. So. Very good. That's. Forthcoming, but, uh, so let's celebrate international podcast day, uh, figure something out to do special on September 30th. Yeah. And there's another inter uh, podcast day thing going on. Uh, I think it's like an early October called podcast day 24, which. Is, yeah. I don't know what it's some sort of, yeah. It's London, Sydney and, uh, New York. So it's not a, you know, it's not, it's not as, as, uh, indie as this one. So. , I wonder why they didn't do it on international podcast day.

11:11 Maybe it's because I don't know, international podcast day is on a Friday this year. That could be, uh, I know they've done it a couple years. I think last year they did it and it was a different date as well. So. Yeah, October 4th is a Tuesday. So interesting. Yeah. All right. So we have a blueberry pro tip. I'm gonna let you roll that, Mike. We'll see if we can, uh, hear it live this time. Hi, it's Toby Goodman here today. The dark side of strategic podcasting. If you are using podcasts to grow your business, I'm all about it. That's not a throwaway comment. I've invested a significant amount of time and money writing a book about it.

11:55 But one thing I've noticed recently are invitations to other podcasts that leave a funny taste in my mouth. Let me explain. There are so many things that can be systemized in podcasting scheduling episodes to release on certain days, emails out to your audience. Blueberry even has a closed caption function where listeners can read along for superior. Accessibility. Tech really is wonderful, but sometimes it can work against us. Recently. I was invited to someone's podcast. I asked for more info and was immediately sent a link to a page. All good. So far, I frequently use a calendar link that does the time zone calculation. So guests I've invited to my podcast called moving conversations can schedule in, but on the page I was sent to, I was asked around 15 questions that essentially turned out to be some sort of contract loads of yes, no check boxes. For example, by being on this podcast, do you agree to promote it to your followers on LinkedIn?

12:57 Will you provide us with an affiliate link for any products you mentioned, will you like and share all social media posts relating to your episode and on and on and on it left me feeling like this person had zero interest in me and was looking to use me to create free content and then get access to my network. There was nothing in any communication about why they wanted to speak to me and what it was about me that made them want me on their podcast. The final nail in the coffin though, was when the form popped up, asking me to provide three questions for them to ask me . So I was left feeling like I'd been given an unpaid assignment for a lazy business owner who is trying to systemize a human relationship.

13:40 One of the big reasons I, and many of my clients enjoy using blueberry slate of tech tools is that you can pick up a phone and call a person to get support a perfect example of an ecosystem that uses the best parts of tech and direct human communication. So how will you use tech? So you can show up in person where, and when you need to another way to increase your ability to use your podcast to connect with more like-minded people is to have my team look after your show production, to start that conversation, come and say hi over@blueberrypro.com. Hey, thanks, Toby for that great tip. And, uh, yeah, the dark side of podcasting tech, when someone tries to, uh, basically make you do all the work for a single interview. I, you know, I've been asked to do pre-interviews for a podcast before, and I'm like, no, I'm not doing a pre-interview before a show.

14:40 If you can't put in the time to learn about me, to have me on your show, then I don't wanna be on your podcast and do the research. And, you know, maybe it's just because I've been on so many podcasts over the years, I'm a little jaded at it. Yep. And, and, you know, I don't wanna have to do the work. If you wanna talk about podcasting, I can talk about anything podcasting, but don't, you know, don't do a pre-interview and ask me what, what we're gonna talk about. That's, that's your job. There's podcasters out there that literally have a list of questions they ask everybody. Right. And, you know, I, I don't know how many times you can redo reuse that before it gets kind of boring to your audience. I would think sure.

15:24 We're gonna move right into the question of the week here. Yeah. And, uh, there's gonna be interview at the end of the show. It says, if you want to buy an existing podcast, how can I value it in a dollar amount? This was from Kurt, from the leading saints podcast. Well, Mike, you wanna run through our answer here? Well. Uh, really, I didn't have a good answer for this because you know, that it's highly variable, uh, depending on the show and how many listeners and all that. So putting a, a dollar value on it is probably a little difficult, but there is a service out there, the podcast broker, and they're dedicated to buying and selling podcasts, and I'm sure they could definitely help you, uh, uh, evaluate the show to see what it's worth. And, you know, we'll, we'll see, you know, how, how, you know, how it works, but, you know, it's buying a podcast. I don't know. Uh .

16:26 Well, you know, there's another article how to measure yeah. From the podcast host that talks about this, but here's the thing I think about when you, when you buy a podcast, the host is an integral part of the show. Right. I don't see how, if you've built something, largely people come to listen to you. Mm-hmm , you know, when, when Rob and I do the new media show and it's just him and I, listenership is always higher than when we have a guest on. So what does that tell us, at least for that show, the people come for Rob and I mm-hmm . So if Rob and I were to sell the new media show, there would be one or two new host. And I don't think the value, at least for the audience will be as, as, as significant. Yeah. They buy a pre-built audience.

17:22 How many of 'em are gonna stay and figure out what these new hosts are gonna talk about. But I, I think it's very, very difficult, you know, to sell a show, you know, you more likely you're selling the value of the.com and the name. Yeah. Cause that's, that's probably the, where the, most of the value at is a good name and maybe a little bit of audience, but I wouldn't count on. So if someone says I'm selling the show, how many people are gonna stay and listen to that next host? Well, I would, I would listen for the first couple just to see how it is, but, you know, after that, if it doesn't strike me, I'm out. So yeah. You know, I don't know if, uh, you know, if that would work, like with this show, we have very varying hosts. It's normally Todd and I, but you know, sometimes you're gone, sometimes I'm gone like next week, by the way. But, uh.

18:14 So it, I think it all depends on the show, but mm-hmm, , if you're a show that's been doing a solo show, or if there's a part, you know, if there's two people doing a show mm-hmm , I, I think you're gonna find a value is gonna be less than what you think it is because it's largely people are, people are tuning in because of you mm-hmm and they don't tune, they, maybe they tune in for the guests, but they tune in for the conversations you have with guests. Um, so I, I think it's a big challenge here, but, uh, yeah. And I know the, the gal that's running the podcast, broker.com. She's a very, very, very successful content creator, well known the space well trusted. Um, so I, I think that's a good place to start is go over there and, and talk to that team. Um, I think it's, it makes a lot of sense.

19:01 And if you're looking to sell a show, they might be the ones to help you, help you set it. But if you got a question you'd like us to answer a show, drop an email to mike@blueberry.com audio, text, or video, and we may use it. You can also post a question on the blueberry Facebook group. Yep. And of course the best place for support with any blueberry products or services is our ticket system that gives us the, the whole team access rather than direct emails or calls. Don't tune out yet because we have this interview coming. Yes, but we've been coming to you this week from the new media production studio in co water, Michigan and Mike Dell's world studio in traverse city, Michigan produced by the blueberry pro production game@blueberrypro.com.

19:42 And fill out our listener survey at surveys.blueberry.com/podcast insider. And that gives us a little more information about you and getting to know you. And of course you can fill out your own, or you can set up your own survey at, uh, at blueberry as well. If you want to survey your audience. But you can schedule one on one with me, hosting customers, only emailTodd@blueberry.com. And of course, I'll do a check checkup of your tech, email me, uh, mike@blueberry.com. And of course she can send us your podcast sticker and a self address stamped envelope. And we'll send you a blueberry care package in return the addresses on the website where we're gonna go ahead and kick to this interview.

20:23 And this is a good one. This is Travis brown from social boom.club show did the interview with Travis. And, uh, it is significantly long, but it is well worth it. Growing your show on social. Yeah. Mike and I will check out for now and then we'll kick over to Cho and Travis. Yeah. Lee Lee on our, uh, production team was saying, it's gonna be about 40 something minutes. So, uh, but it's well worth the. Listen. Yes, it is. It's a good one. So enjoy, and we'll see you next week here on podcast insight. Okay. Hello Chavez. Hey. Joe. Thank you for joining me on this episode. If you could call it like that, maybe we can chat a little bit about how to grow your podcast on social media. Yeah, not a lot of people, uh know, but a lot of people who have been following us on Instagram have seen Travis reels. He's done amazing reals on, um, starting a podcast with blueberry in Alaska page, and we're really happy to have you. And, and since you you've been very popular to a lot of blueberry audience. Now, people love you, um, saying us very positive feedbacks about how they find your, your advice very available after we refer them to your, uh, site and also introduce 'em to social boom. Um, I decided it would be nice to have you here to share a little bit about growing

21:56 podcasts on social media. And so why don't you kind of just introduce a little bit about yourself first? So I'm Travis and I am obsessed with helping the average creator basically reach an audience, build a community and turn that into their own job, turn into a full-time thing, because there's so many tools at our disposal in 2022 that allow us to reach a global audience. Like just for instance, blueberry, right? You can start telling stories and sharing value and get that message all around the globe, just through one microphone, which is amazing. And then of course you can turn that into a community of people that support you collaborate with you, maybe work for you one day and you can fire your boss and you could do your own thing. And, and it's very exciting to me because, you know, I always dreamed about it and now I'm living it, which is a whole nother experience, but, you know, if I can do it, I think anyone can do it because I don't have a, I do have a college degree, but it's not for anything that's related to this. And I, wasn't a good student and I'm not the smartest person or the most handsome person, but, but that makes me feel like there's hope for everybody who might be in a situation that they're not really enjoying right now and, and that they could share their passion and share their, their knowledge with the entire world. Mm-hmm.

23:14 . Wow. And that's why, that's why we think that you are gonna be a great voice, you know, like cuz a lot of people feel like they, they have to have a talent for something for public speaking, for, you know, having a niche on something in order to give the audience, um, some content, you know, because content creating could be intimidating to a lot of people, especially when a lot of time people are not on camera often or don't know where to start to begin with and having an account that, you know, like an, an Instagram account, for example, and growing back to something bigger, like a business is something that a lot of people don't always imagine. Yeah. That it's possible especially for podcast. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, the entire, my entire career as a creator has really been an evolution. And you know, when I started off, I was just doing a podcast production in the background.

24:04 No one knew who I was. No, I wasn't a part of any shows. I was just helping other people because I have an audio engineering degree. And so I knew how to do audio stuff. And it was just something I really enjoyed because I used to be a professional musician and storytelling and songs and storytelling and podcasts is very similar. So I had an, a good idea of what would make for a good podcast. And at then I, you know, I was like, well, I want a podcast. So I started podcasting, which was the best place to start because I could hide behind the microphone. And I hid behind a microphone for many, many years. I didn't put myself out on social media. I didn't put my picture anywhere. And then, um, you know, I created podcasts, which I wanted to get out into the world and allowed me to share some of my tips and tricks on podcasting that I've learned.

24:46 And so I started to put myself out there right in just pictures in carousel posts, not even video cause I was terrified of it. And then, you know, I, I started to push my boundaries and I'm like, I'm gonna try to, I'm gonna try to do video even though I'm uncomfortable and I'm not always comfortable with my appearance or how I sound. And then I started to do video. Now I'm obsessed with video. And I think if, if you look at, if you look at anybody, who's where you wanna be. The first thing you need to do is go all the way back to their beginning. So if it's like a YouTuber, go to their YouTube page and go to the very first video and see where they were when they started, because that's really who you're competing with. Like a lot of people compare themselves to someone in their current state, but there's an evolution of us all.

25:26 And you have to try new things and see what resonates with you. And so, you know, it's exciting cause I, I have no idea what's next. You know? I mean, I think videos are probably the big thing, but who knows? We could be in VR soon, we could be on, you know, a satellite dish somewhere, you know, who knows. Right. So you have to embrace that. And if, if content creation seems, you know, intimidating to you, all we're doing when we create content is sharing cool stuff, it could be, Hey, I love this bubbly water. Right? Look Croix. It's the best I, this is my favorite bubbly water. Right? You're just sharing something that you love with other people. It could be a tip. It could be a story. It could be a lesson. It could be, you know, um, you know, keeping people from being harmed.

26:07 Like there's so many things that each individual person has their own unique experiences that I think that they could easily share. If they just look at it through that lens, I'm just sharing cool stuff with the world. Right. Then content creation doesn't seem so intimidating. Wow. I like that. that makes it a hundred times less intimidating already. Yeah. That's that's all it is. It's it's, we're just, we're just sharing cool stuff. Wow. I have a question for you. And it was basically why should podcasters leverage social media and is it hard to start, but you kinda answer a little bit of that already and make it less scary for people, but why for podcasters, you know, from like business perspective where you want to, because you want to attract new listeners. Yeah.

26:52 Instagram, for example, because I know you grow on that platform and you focus on that platform a lot. So what is your opinion on that? Like. Yeah. So I think that podcasters are at a big disadvantage from a discoverability situation, simply because people wake up in the morning and they check their phone and they check their email and then they check social media. They don't necessarily open up a podcast app first. Right? So podcasters need to be on social media because it's where the eyeballs are. It's where the traffic is. It would be like having a billboard on a street that no one drives down. Right. We wanna be in front of people to have an opportunity, to get more listeners. So high traffic area is social media, any platform, if it's Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, any of them are high traffic areas.

27:38 So we need to make sure that we're at least giving ourselves a chance and you know, secondarily in my opinion, and I'm really big on community. And I know blueberry is too, which is why I love you guys. You know, there's a community aspect to each creator. And I would say that it's probably the biggest opportunity for everybody is to start a gang or build a club or do something where you're gonna attract the people that are gonna be your biggest supporters, future collaborators, future employees. And you don't need millions of people in order to be a full-time creator. You just need like a thousand true fans that would potentially like support you a hundred dollars a year and you're making a hundred thousand dollars. Right?

28:19 So podcasting is an amazing medium. And you know, we were just at podcast movement and I, and I see, you know, there's always people that are trying to improve the medium and, and podcasting doesn't need to be improved. It's been the same way for 20 years because it's great the way it is. It's audio, it's stories, it's RSS feeds. And in my opinion, doesn't really need to be improved. So, you know, as we're out there, I notice how much the community is really such a big part of podcasting, right. And how much of a community we need to build around ourselves. And I think that that's where social media can tie into your podcast. Because again, it's a one way street. I talk through this mic, it goes to your ears. You can't talk back to me, right. Where can you do that?

29:06 Well, you can do that on social media, right? So now we have this two way conversation and we're building community, we're building relationships. Like, you know, when I went to podcast movement, I was super excited to meet you because we had talked on zoom and you were on my hit list. I was like, okay, I gotta, I gotta meet these people. And you know, I wanna make sure that I meet Cho. And um, so you know, that's a big connection point that we wouldn't get through a podcast, right. That we can't put together through a podcast. So I think besides putting yourself where the people are and the people go every day and people go to social media every day, because it's designed to keep you addicted to it. Yeah. There's this community element that you can build around a podcast.

29:49 And we've seen this with all kinds of different shows. Like, you know, Joe Rogan has all these people that just love eating elk meat and throwing axes. Right. And the moth has all these people that love to tell stories and all these different comedy podcasts do live events. That's all just community. And that's where the magic happens. I love these two paws that you brought up versus helping people discover your podcast. And then secondly, you know, building a community because your audience wants to engage with you too. Yes. Outside of your podcast. So very, very important and podcasters, if they could remember that, that would make it so easier to just start doing something, even just a little picture of themselves, you know, or something that they want to share, something personal so that people can know about more about the person who, who does a podcast, um, or maybe not necessarily about themselves, but the podcast itself.

30:47 It's about branding too. And so that kind of brings me to my next question about if you have any tips or advice for people when they choose their audience and also the platform. Um, I try to narrow it down to Instagram only, just because social media is, can be a lot. Yeah. They're, they're LinkedIn. They are Twitter. They're um, Facebook and audience interact with you on different platforms too. I myself are on a daily basis. Use Instagram. Um, ironically just deleted that. just for me. Oh, on my phone. but work, I still do that. I'm taking a little bit of a.

31:32 Digital detox. That's good. Digital detox. But then I, I know that five days after I'm like, I wanna know what my friends are doing. So I'm back on that again. But you know, for podcasters who have audience of different demographics who uses different platforms, what are your advice on like how to find out what is the best platform to, to grow? Sure. So I personally think that, you know, what burns people out is that they try to be everywhere all the time. And so I tried that and it didn't work for me because you're constantly trying to do this, that, and the other thing. So my recommendation is just go to your favorite platform, whatever you like to use and start there and just build out that platform.

32:17 So right now I'm on Instagram. Yes. I have a Facebook page, but it's just, I don't post anything there. I have a LinkedIn page. I don't post anything there. I have a YouTube account. I haven't posted there in a long time because I can't consistently keep up with that. And so if you pick the one that you like to use the most, you're more likely to consistently show up. Okay. And that's the best place to start now? Yes, you should. You know, you should think about your audience because as podcasters and content creators, we do this for our audience. You know, we do it a little for ourselves. We do it for our audience. So maybe you wanna factor in that, like if you're teaching, like, you know, 75 year old men to lift weights or something that they might be on Facebook, or they might be on a specific platform, but if you don't like using the platform, you're not gonna go on it.

33:02 And that's the key to social media is being active, being a part of the community, using the platform. And so I just recommend people start with one and, you know, I've spent the last two years building my Instagram account up to over a hundred thousand followers. And I do believe that if I would've been trying to do all the platforms at once that I, I wouldn't be as far as I am now that I have that right. I can focus on figuring out a way to distribute my content to all the different platforms, because there is value in distribution, just like with a, with a podcast, like you wanna make sure that your podcast shows up on all the apps in case your audience maybe uses Pandora or Spotify. Right. But I think where your energy goes is where everything flows.

33:45 And so if you just make it easy on people and they say, where can I find you? And you say, you can find me on Instagram. It's super easy for them. But if you say you can find me on YouTube and TikTok and Instagram and Beepboop and booby bop and whatever the next app is, then it's like, I'm overwhelmed. Right. And I might not go take action. So similar to, in the call to action of your podcast, you should just send them to one place. Right. Just send them to the one place you want them to go. Don't overwhelm them and paralyze them with too many options. That's awesome. I like that. Very simple understand. Very easy. Yeah. Minimalist. Minimalist focus on one thing, maybe down the line dot two more. if you have. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, in, in all honesty, like right now I'm posting a lot of short form videos. Right.

34:28 And that's on reels. There's really no reason I shouldn't be also posting those to TikTok other than the fact that I just spend my time doing other things. And at some point I will do that. Right. So, you know, that could be a YouTube short, that could be in different platforms, but, you know, I, I do still think that it overwhelms you with, then now I'm checking another app to see how the video's doing or checking the comments. And you're basically tripling your output on something where you just need to like really focus on growing and growing. One thing, you know, it's not, we're not trying to build a whole garden at, in the beginning. We're just trying to really get good at being a, a member of a community somewhere. I think it'd be great for podcasters to keep that in mind, since they already have to keep themselves busy, um, and get things done with content planning, with, you know, planning the show notes and inviting guests to their show. Yeah.

35:23 It's a, it's a, a lot of work to run a podcast. Yeah. And so social media could sometimes be, feel like a lot of work too. But, um, so now that they can choose one platform to grow, to start with what kind of, of content do you think? I mean, there's no certain recipe, but if you were to start a new whole new page for your new podcast and just gonna talk to your pod podcast audience and interact with them on any topic, um, is there like kind of like a general guidelines or types of posts or content that is easy to make that, um, that or they can start developing? Yeah. So, I mean, with social media, you know, the best practices are that like when you show up on social media, whatever you do should be honoring your audience's time. So if you're like, if you do a sports podcast, you don't want to go on social media and post your dog and like tacos, you wanna post things that are relevant to the thing that they're interested in.

36:19 So that's, that's like best practices right away. There's something called the hero's journey. Very simple. Um, it's in every movie, every book you've ever read where there's a hero that encounters an obstacle, and then they meet a guide who helps them overcome the obstacle for a happy ending and where most people get confused on social media is they make themselves the hero. It's all about them. All the content is about their, their lives. And what they forget is that they're really the guide and the guide's job is to either educate or entertain them, to help them overcome the obstacle. So if you go in with the idea that I'm gonna give as much value as I can with my content, and then sprinkle my personality into it, then you have a perfect blend of both mm-hmm now as far as the easiest kind of content to make, it really depends on the platform.

37:02 I can tell you that, like video is king right now. So, you know, Instagram's pushing video. TikTok is all video, YouTube's doing short form video. Now, Twitter, little different, more, more conversational and thread like, so, you know, the easiest, the easiest kind of content that you could create in my opinion. And maybe cuz it's easy for me, it's just holding up your phone and talking to it on a video. Right? We do that on FaceTime. We do that, you know, all the time. But for some reason when it comes to creating content, people don't wanna do it. So, um, if you don't like being on video, I would consider doing something with, you know, if you're on Instagram, carousel posts do really well and that's just a series of posts and you can just write text on it. So let's say your podcast is about cooking.

37:47 You could create a recipe on a bunch of different slides, taking them step by step, how to make risotto or something. And so that becomes valuable. And maybe you talked about risotto on your last podcast episode, so you can make sure that people know that you reviewed the, the world's number one risotto restaurant, and then they're more likely to go, oh cool. Now I know how to make it. I wanna hear about the best risotto. And they might go over to actually listen to the podcast. So it's gonna be, you know, it's hard with social media because it's so subjective. What's easy for me. You know, writing like actually like typing and writing things is really difficult for me. Whereas somebody who's a writer might wanna go to Twitter. It's really easy for me to talk and, and emote.

38:28 So video and audio are really like the places I'm most drawn to because it's easy for me. So whatever comes naturally to you, however, I will say that pushing yourself outside of your boundaries sometimes gets you the most growth. So, you know, I was afraid of video. I resisted video. I didn't wanna do video. And I pushed myself outside of my boundaries and now I learned an entirely new skill and it's something I really love to do now. So you don't wanna stay in your box all the time, but you wanna start with the thing that comes easiest to you. Okay, perfect. I like that. It's easy to understand. And, and your advice is also like inspires people to take action without overwhelming them, that about this literally to, oh, you have to make a real, or you have to do this and design this for yourself. Um, but whatever makes you feel like easy to do to start with, and maybe sometimes save out the box. I use a lot, um, a daily basis to, to design things and I don't need to be, and anyone doesn't need to be like graphic designer to design simple things, to make infographics, to put some text in there, to throw in some snippet of your podcast. Well, headline area is blueberry's partner for example. And so we, we encourage people to use those tools that we partner with and snippets of, of that podcast, uh, a video, uh, and it doesn't have to be your, have your face on it, but you can use that snippet, bring it into onto social media, distributed their, um, and so that people can be like, oh, so this is what they're talking in this episode,

39:59 or talking about something that they're very excited to do, or maybe I have a sneak pick of the next guest that are gonna show up in the next episode. So many ideas. And, and I feel like is can you cannot really have, um, like a list of, of, of, oh, of that in just one conversation between us, but there are many tools online and we probably elaborate more on that. Um, in the future blog posts too. What's the easiest way for, for people who are not natural to, to social media to start learning. I personally say observing, but what about you? Yeah. So one, one thing that I do, um, just because I want everything that I do to have a high probability of success is I go do a little research on what's working for other creators.

40:45 So this doesn't take very long. It's as simple as going to YouTube and typing in your keyword, let's say your keyword is mountain climbing, right? I'm just making this up as I go along. So you type mountain climbing and YouTube, and then you're able to filter within the last month in the top viewed videos. And what that does is that shows you all of the best performing content for that keyword in the last month. And then what I'll do is I'll just look at the, the title card, what, what the title card says on it, cuz usually that's what gets people to click. Okay. So if it says climb this mountain 42 times faster, I might be able to, you know, um, create a post that's something similar to that, right? Like get ready to climb the mountain 42 times faster or, um, climb the mountain 40. You know, I could use that as something that's a proven topic and thread that people are interested in.

41:34 The other thing I'll do is I just go to TikTok because TikTok is more popular than anything right now. And I will just search a keyword and filter it by the last three months. And the most views that just immediately shows you all the viral content. And I just look at what they like, what's the beginning of the video. What does it say on it? And I'll use that as a spark to then go create my own idea. And you can do this with other industries too. Right? So, um, you know, I saw a post the other day, it was like the cheat code to getting out of debt. And I was like, cool. The cheat code too. That's a great spark for me. So I could put in anything, the cheat code to podcasting, the cheat code to social media. Right? You can, so you can use, what's working for other people as a spark for you.

42:17 Now when it comes to comparison, you know, you have to remember that someone might be further down their career than you, and you need to be careful about looking at somebody and feeling inferior, insecure compared to them, right? When, when you post on social media, it's very rare that someone is immediately judging you, your voice, the way you look, the what's in the background of the video. Yes. There's always things that could be improved, but that's, I think what keeps most people away is that they're worried about what people will think about them. So I have this sort of, uh, D G a F attitude where I just say, if I think this is good and this is the best I can do, then I'm happy with it. Right. And anybody who isn't, you know, maybe there's trolls out there and there's always gonna be people that, you know, have comments and stuff. You know, if they took time out of their day to tell me something kind of nasty, then I already won because they saw my thing and it moved them in a way that made them so angry that they had to leave a comment. Right. So, but that's very rare, right? It's very rare to be judged.

43:16 And I think that just keeps people from, you know, I think watching too much content keeps people from making. So you wanna be careful about how much you're consuming. And then I think that sort of fear of being judged keeps people from making. So you wanna go onto a, a social media platform, look at something that inspires you and then go make something, you know, you turn off the, the phone or you turn off the social media app and, and spend your time making instead of just consuming. I like that. Awesome. I also can relate to that too, because making content, the reason why I could be intimidating sometimes is because people feel like, am I saying something, something that's gonna offend someone or something that's gonna, um, they're gonna be haters coming at me because they don't like the way I look or the way that I am sharing this content, you know?

44:04 Or they just kind of like shaming you for becoming, um, on the camera. but yeah, you know. I've gone viral multiple times and I've had some of the nastiest comments said about me and you know what? I just, I just take it in stride. And I just say, Hey, clearly that person's having a bad day. Right? Clearly, you know, nothing I've said in this video is enough to garner that kind of response. But a lot of times when it comes to haters or trolls, what they're doing is they're putting their insecurities on you. So what they're doing is saying you're doing something that I can't personally do. So I'm gonna try to tear you down. And if you let those people affect you in that way, then you might get torn down. But if you look at it as like, it's just part of the game and you know, that person has some insecurity issues and you realize that that more, you know, more people are seeing your content than it's actually a win because all, all press is good press, right? Like people talking about you either way, the more people you reach and you see this in, in celebrities, right?

45:03 The more people you reach, the more haters you will have, because not everybody's going to love you. And that's okay. So like, you look at like Kanye west, right? He's like, some people think he's the greatest rapper alive. And some people think he's a total psychopath. Right. but E but either way he wins because people are talking about him. So there's an awareness factor that even the people that don't like, you are still gonna go check out what you're doing, because they are insecure. And they, they know you're up to something that they can't handle. So you just have to have fun with it. Mm-hmm and not take it personally. Right. Nobody's perfect. And so, you know, if somebody comments on your appearance, they're really, they're really projecting their thoughts about themselves on you.

45:44 Or if they think that your video's dumb, then fine, that's your opinion. You just didn't keep it to yourself. . Right. On TikTok. I've, I've watched a lot of videos and that, and it's funny how TikTok taught me a lot about psychology. And I hear the terms, you know, projecting people once insecurities on other a lot. And then I'm like, wow, well, I wish you knew that earlier. when, when haters are bullies. And, um, I, I think, I think that that's a really good thing that podcasters can keep in mind, but even themselves are already like publishing their episodes and already share their stories and, and, and have an audience already. And so most of the podcasters that I talk to are very comfortable with talking with speaking of course. Right. And then, and then most of them are also okay with being out there showing their face, or just being on social media and staying active.

46:39 What about those who don't necessarily want to show their face yeah. Like, do you think that there's a way that they can still grow? Because I know some people have come to me and I'm like, Hmm. I mean, I don't mind it, but it's still just gonna be a lot of work. And so how do I produce content that can still relates to my audience about my podcast? Yeah. So if you don't wanna put your face out there, uh, there's a lot of different ways you can grow. So, um, the point of view, angle of just seeing what you see without seeing you can work. So I'm, I'm absolutely obsessed with this show on HBO. Um, I can't remember the name of this show, but it's just this guy who lives in New York and walks around and films stuff and tells stories. You never see him, but it's, it's incredible.

47:22 It's just his voice narrating. If you didn't want to put your face out there, you could, you know, people love to see drone footage. They love to see things being built. You could just use your hands, right? So there's lots of ways. I will say that biologically, we look for faces. So when you're born, the first thing you look for is mom's face. When you look at the moon, you see a face. And if you look at a tree long enough, you'll eventually see a face because it's part of our DNA. And so with people being attracted to faces, you know, I'd like to ask the person, well, why is it that you don't wanna be seen? Right. There's something underneath that. Because you know, when we grow up, we get our class picture and we're in pictures and we go out in the world.

48:05 Why don't you wanna be seen the answer to that question is usually something around being judged or something around insecurity of the appearance, or, um, you know, I, I, I put a post out a long time ago about, you know, a lot of podcasters hate their voice. Right. And as somebody who's been in the music industry for a long time, I've recorded a lot of singers. Everybody hates their voice. and I use the example of some incredible actors. And I'm just gonna name one, for example, Steve Buschemi, do you know who Steve Buschemi is? Okay. So he's got crazy teeth, right? Like, and he's not, you know, he's not like the most, he's not a Brad Pitt. He is kind of gooey guy. Right. And he is made an entire career off of being the oddball in the movie. And, and he's got a really interesting voice and he does voiceovers for Disney.

48:53 Right. So what I like to tell people is like the weirder you are, I think it's the better you are. And if, if there's something weird about you go all in on that, make that your signature thing. So if you have a weird voice lean into it, it might turn into an opportunity for you. And, um, if you don't wanna put your face on social media, I guess the, the, the best thing you could do is probably go more of text based. So creating content, that's just text on a screen where you're maybe telling a story or using footage with, uh, captions over it. Um, but I do think that if you really break it down psychologically, that you would be there's something underneath it that you're, you're not facing.

49:34 Okay. I've met people who have been the mysterious podcasters. . I mean, there's something pretty cool about being mysterious. I actually follow this TikTok guy. Who's like, he does finance stuff about like banks and the government, but he's just, he's like completely blacked out. Like the way he has his lighting is you just can't see his face. And it's actually pretty intriguing because it's more like, Ooh, who's the mystery man. So, you know, you can play into that if you wish, like, make, make sure the lighting just darkens your face out, but you're still on camera could be pretty cool. And, you know, sometimes, sometimes, uh, a cartoon character got famous too. And, and the person who invented that proprietors never really shows up.

50:15 So I like to see the podcast as like a, uh, the product that the podcaster build. And, and there are so many ways that you can tell a story about it, but definitely, um, once in a while, or if you can, if you can show up and show people your face and let people know who you are, that would be amazing because they can relate to you and know, um, who they're listening to, because that's how I feel when I'm on the podcast. I feel like whenever I listen to a podcast, it's like having a conversation with someone. Yeah. Especially, I really like, even though I cannot talk back to them, you know, like I cannot converse with them and I can listen. It's like very soothing and calming to me. Um, and so, um, and, and, and I like to listen to those that are educational. And so just for example, like a podcast on a topic, like, let's say machine learning, uh, because sometimes I'm very nerdy and I like machine learning. So , I like to listen to that. And, um, it's, it's just great to see the, the text, the infographics about that, or, or design.

51:18 I like podcast about designing too. And so, um, I, I follow their account for the design that, that podcasters talk about, you know, and so more, I think that the key here is you are helping your audience find the value that they looking for, like creating something that your audience finds helpful and available. Yes, absolutely. I mean, value based. I think the days, uh, you know, a decade ago you posted the food you ate and the beach that you're on and all this stuff, that's what like social media was, but it has evolved quite quickly into a value proposition. And, you know, again, with the hero's journey, like we are not the heroes of the story. We are the guide.

52:03 And our job is to give as much value as we can to our audience. You know share some cool stuff with our audience and, you know, sprinkle in ourselves. So it's not, it's not to be, you know, you're not to never speak of yourself ever again, but those are the accounts that typically do the best or the, the value led ones or the really entertaining ones. Right. So with podcasting, there's a lot of entertainment involved. So if you're an entertainment, podcaster, you know, I think, I think podcasters need to remember one thing. The cool thing about podcasting is that you feel like you're sitting at the table with the people, right? Yeah. But, but if you imagine that you're at this table and you're with these people and you're watching the conversation, but the room is pitch black, you can't see them. Right.

52:46 At some point you're gonna kind of wanna have a clue of who you're hanging out with. And I think that's where social media comes into, where you can, you know, show people. I mean, I've done this a million times. I'll hear someone on a podcast and I go Google image them. I just wanna see what they look like. I wanna see what VO, what face is attached to that voice. And I think that curiosity, at some point peaks in every podcast fan, like, what does this guy look like? What does this lady look like? And it gives us a better internal representation of them. So by putting yourself out on social media, I think you give people some context clues to where they can get a little closer to you. Awesome. What about follower growth? And then like the gain gaining followers, do you think that numbers like followers really matter? And a lot of people, they don't know how to measure their success or are they looking at the numbers like, oh, I, I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, cuz the numbers are so low engagement rate are so low. So what should be the, the thing that they should be looking at?

53:46 Okay. So as somebody with a hundred thousand followers, I've been through every single stage as a creator. And I can tell you that as you get more followers, there are opportunities that present themselves to you, right? There's opportunities to work with brands or, you know, it's really a vanity metric, right? It's like I could buy you a hundred thousand followers today. Right. And put them on your account, but no one's going to interact with you. No, one's gonna look at your content. It'll just be a number on the screen. So if you focus on as opposed to the follower number, the interactions that you have, like I'd much rather just have a thousand people who are just obsessed with me than a hundred thousand who could care, like kind of have care about what I'm doing, right? Um, so if you focus more on interactions and one of the ways you can do this is through something called unscalable conversations.

54:40 And that's simply as you become a member of a social media community, you should be commenting on other people in your niches post and you should be sending audio messages to new followers, introducing yourself, trying to start a conversation. It's very similar to a party. And if I invited you to my party and you came in, but you couldn't find me anywhere, you probably leave. Right. Because I had invited you to the party. So when someone comes to the party wanna say, Hey, thanks so much for coming. I wanna make you comfortable. Do you know where the bathroom is? Right. Um, you know, what's new in your world. You're it's, it's, it's it's, you know, social media. , it's not just media. Right? So if, if you think of it like a party, you can have a lot of fun regardless of how many followers you have. Right.

55:26 And I do think this is very prevalent in podcasting too. Like a lot of people are obsessed with their download numbers. Yeah. But I would get, I would get more obsessed with like how many people are like reaching out how many people are opening my emails and things like that. Because that, those are like real people, as opposed to just somebody who presses play on a podcast. So it's all how you look at it. And I understand everyone who wants more followers, everyone wants, you know, all this stuff. But the difference between my account with 3000 followers and a hundred thousand followers, isn't much different. It's I pretty much like have the same little community. And I don't look at my, I like, I don't like the word influencer because I think that if you can get somebody to eat a piece of pie, then you're an influencer. You've influenced them. So like, I think there's some, some kind of like gross stuff around that, but it's inevitably something you'll focus on.

56:19 But if you focus on it in a way of just like, well, my community's growing number really shouldn't matter. Right. Your interactions should matter. Yeah. And how people know you, because if your audience knows who you are and if you know who are listening to your show, I think that's the win. And a lot of podcasters come to us and ask, how do I know more about my audience? And we have the audience survey where you can learn more about the demographics of your listeners, but those are just numbers, you know? Like based on those data, you can't really know, um, exactly who you are listening to. So I feel like, yes, social media, uh, what are the benefits that you can know? Um, your, the people that you are, who are through a survey, um, your content too. And so from that point, you can develop more content that cater to them or, you know, something that like serve what the people need. . Yeah.

57:15 Yeah. I mean, it's, if you, like, if you think of your, there's a couple of things with your personal brand, right. And your personal brand encompasses your social media and your podcast and everything else, part one part of it is your reputation, right? Like your reputation is everything. And if you look at your personal brand as a club, if you were gonna start a club in your local community, you'd start small. You'd invite people in. You'd get to know people. You'd network. It's the same concept, except it's all digital now. So the key to like specifically podcasters is to make your podcast into a club where you have callbacks to, um, you know, you might call your, your listeners like a name, not like a bad name, but like, if you're, let's say you're the mountain climbers, like, you know, you call 'em the mountaineers, what's up mountaineers.

58:01 And everybody identifies with this mountaineers name. Okay. And you wanna make it this inclusive thing that if you, if you're in you're in and when you come in, you'll be welcomed mm-hmm and that's the best way. I mean, I think all the best podcasts I've ever listened to have some form of like tribe element to it, you know, I think. Something exclusive. Yeah. And I know I've, I've used this example before, but like, you know, there's so many people that are like, oh, I only got a hundred downloads, but if they walked into a room with a hundred people sitting there to talk, their heart would start pounding, they'd start sweating. It would be, they'd have a response to it cuz it's a lot of people. Right. So if you focus less on the quantity and more on the qual quality and you understand that this whole thing doesn't happen overnight. Like, you know, I went from 10,000 to a hundred thousand followers in six weeks and everybody just kept saying to me like, wow, you just blew up overnight.

58:51 And I'd been working my butt off for two years, you know? And I would just respond and say, yeah, I'm a two year overnight success. Right? Because overnight success is basically winning the lottery. Right? If you buy a lottery ticket on a Friday and you win Friday night, Saturday, you're a millionaire overnight success. But these things take time and they take time to blossom. And if you can just get really comfortable with the thought of, you know, I try to make one friend a day on social media, just one handshake. Like I try to meet somebody new, have an interaction. And, and that compounds over time. Mm-hmm so if you just focus on the one person, you know, um, if you were on a date and you're looking at your date and you're at a bar and you guys are holding your drinks and she's just looking around you the whole time, you wouldn't feel very like important.

59:40 And I feel like that's the kind of thing that happens when people want bigger audiences is they start looking over the people that are right there with them. Right. And. It's not very magnetic and it's not very valuable to them to just be like, well, you're here, but where's everybody else. Right? So if you get into that mentality of like, I've got my core people, if it's 30 people, it's 30 people. Those people will inevitably tell more people about. You. Wow. All of these examples are, are amazing because , it is like, like it's so much easier to understand. And sometimes we forgot social media is just, you know, a platform where you can make friends because that's socially what it was built in the beginning for. And then slowly you can, um, gradually change into something that like you can grow business out of that.

1:00:28 And, and people forgot that I'm like, do I need to do this fancy stuff to attract new followers? But they forgot that like, you know, if it comes from the heart, like your intention is to build a community, um, just like just like welcoming everyone, um, and inviting everyone, make it, make it friendly, make it fun for the people. . Yeah. Yeah. That's so that matters. Right? And so I feel like podcaster who listen to this episode will find it very helpful. And, and I hope that they can start thinking about branding and building a community and just starting by, by making friends. Very, really? Yeah. I mean, if I could give anybody who's listening to this, just one challenge it would be to, because I know what I know what everyone's rebuttal is right now, they're thinking, well, I have to make my podcast.

1:01:18 I don't have time for social media. So the quickest way that you can start putting yourself out on social media is when you get done with your episode, take out your phone, press the video button and say, Hey, name of my gang. just finished the episode about blank. We talked about this, we talked about this and we talked about this and the episode will be live on Monday. Can't wait for you to hear it. Right? Like just giving them the, the heads up that they're on the inner side of you behind the scenes and what's coming next. Will do you wonders? It will do you much better than saying new episode out. Now, check out this episode, check out the podcast. Nobody cares.

1:02:00 Just talk to one person. And if you have a hard time looking at the camera, imagine your grandma or someone who makes you smile and imagine you're telling your grandma, Hey grandma, this week we talked about X, Y, and Z. And it's probably my favorite episode ever. The links in my bio, go check it out. Right? It's it's, it's casual. It doesn't have to be this. It doesn't have to be something that derails your entire week. You don't have to make 50 posts about one episode. Yeah. Just. Just keep it casual and, and have fun with it. Because you know, there's a lot of people that don't get to podcasts. There's a lot of people that don't get to use social media and whatever you do, you should try to have as much fun with it as you can, because that comes through the microphone that comes through the camera.

1:02:44 And we didn't start podcasting. I don't think at least maybe I'm wrong, but Mo I don't think most people start podcasting because they're like trying to make money. I think they're trying to have fun and tell their story. And once you get into it and you see that analytics dashboard and you see these numbers, you've kind of lose sight of that, right? Yep. You kind of got caught up in the numbers. Yeah. So, so like have some fun and know that if you're getting a hundred downloads, like you're a success, there's a hundred people out there listening to what you have to say. And the more fun you have, the more fun your audience will have. And that, that will inherently mag be magnetic to more people. Wow. That's amazing. That's the best challenge ever.

1:03:27 And I want, I'm gonna post this part specifically so that everyone can can know, and, and that will a challenge for them, but I sure a lot of people have started a, of a social media account for the podcast already. And so it's time that they have more fun with it, right. Because. Absolutely make it fun, make it something that, you know, you can have fun with. And people who look at it can have fun with, and you can, in, in that capacity, you can't go wrong. It's having fun every day. That's what we're doing. , that's, that's. The goal. That's the. That's the goal. That's what I'm doing at my job too. Job is the job, but you still gotta have fun. Yeah. Well, you're listen, you're a rock star and I love what you do. I love blueberry, you know, at podcast movement, one of my favorite presentations was Todd's, uh, presentation about growing a podcast. Uh, he said so many things that, you know, I already knew, but a lot of things I, I hadn't thought about and he shared it in a really great way.

1:04:22 And I think the team at blueberry is absolutely incredible. So, uh, thank you so much for picking me to have this conversation. Absolutely. And thank you for spending your time, talking to us and sharing your variable available social media experience. You've gained over the years and yeah. Happy to help. Great. Thank you so much. And I hope you have a great rest of the weekend. . Amazing. Cheers.