Podcast Artwork Dos & Donts – PCI 346

0:00 People see the question, upload your artwork, and it, they literally freeze. Like they're fully frozen. And don't sign up for their podcast just cuz they don't have artwork. And it's like, it should never be that scary, that it literally stops you from creating. You're listening to Podcast Insider hosted by Mike Dell, Todd Cochran, and Mackenzie Bennett from the Blueberry team, bringing you weekly insights, advice, and insider tips and tricks to help you start, grow and thrive through podcasting. With all the support of your team here at Blueberry Podcasting, welcome. Let's dive in. I'm Mackenzie Bennett, marketing specialist here at Blueberry. And.

0:40 I'm Erin Hope, graphic designer at Blueberry. Today we've brought on our special guest from the blueberry team. We brought Erin on because we'll be discussing some dos and don'ts of podcast artwork. Baby's first official podcast. I'm so excited to get you on here. You've been with us for three years now. Yes. And we've talked about this day forever, so it's, it's finally happening. I know, I'm glad we are. It's, uh, it's also something like, this topic is something that we've discussed wanting to do for a very long time, but we've never really gone into it that much because, well, none of us are graphic designers, so it felt like it was appropriate to save it for someone worthwhile.

1:24 Yes. And I, I'm very excited to share some some tips and tricks because as a designer I like the internet to look better, uh, , including the artwork, uh, that we see on these podcasts, uh, dis distribution points. Yeah. I wholeheartedly agree with that idea as a whole. I want the internet to look better. . Mm-hmm. . Yeah. That's why I do what I do. Well, okay. That goes into, we get podcasters at events on the phone and emails like any single time someone is starting a show, unless they're like a designer themselves, they usually ask a ton of questions about podcast artwork. And so with this, we'll have a blog post that, you know, kind of gives some examples that you can visually look at. For example, like we've changed this podcast that you're listening to right now many times over the years. And each time we've had a different artwork to go with it, like we've maybe changed the name of the show, the people behind the, you know, behind the mic and just given it a facelift and update, whatever you wanna call it. And the artwork changes every time.

2:28 And most recently you helped us with the latest iteration of Podcast Insiders. So what was your experience with that? Um, it was definitely an experience cuz it was my first time looking at podcast artworks from like that designer perspective. Like from just like my critical eye and just being like, okay, what are the trends? What are the patterns? And then how can I bring that into our artwork? So it was, it was definitely a fun little challenge to do. And I definitely think we came to a really good point where we have something that stands out, but also something that, you know, speaks to the category, which is, you know, going inside podcasts.

3:09 So that's why I literally put insider inside that soundbar inside the r s s feed inside the audio to show like we are, that's how deep we're going in podcasts like this. In episodes like this, which we're about to deep dive, we're literally deep diving into podcast artwork right now. I really wanted to show that like you are getting an insider's perspective because everyone on here has experience in podcasting, whether as a listener or as a creator. And we're putting all of our experiences together to give you, um, you know, expert tips in the very small little sound wave file. I know, I really enjoy this one, uh, because it's so, it looks so simple, but it's so detail oriented as well. So, uh, getting into some do's and don'ts. One of the first ones that I had on here is, I don't get me wrong, I love the creative perspective. However, real quick, people need to follow the minimum requirements for podcast artwork, like the specs that are required to create this.

4:10 Cuz if you get that wrong, like you're it, you're gonna have to redo it. Yep. And you know, we've even, I don't know how much inside baseball we can say, but like, we've even taken that question off of our like, new sign ups for podcasters. Just because people see the question, upload your artwork, and it, they literally freeze. Like they're fully frozen and don't sign up for their podcast just cuz they don't have artwork. And it's like, it should never be that scary that it literally stops you from creating. The best place to start is to know the main general minimum rules, which, um, while Apple is not by any means the king of podcast, they definitely have the strictest rules when it comes to visuals.

4:52 As we all know, apple is very particular about their imagery. Um, so they are usually the the base point that we use cuz it's like, okay, if you can upload it and meet Apple standards, then you will meet the standards pretty much anywhere else that you get podcasts. Exactly. It's when you're following them, you're gonna be okay with everyone else. So real quick, uh, 14 by 1400 or 3000 by 3000, that is the main one that will trip some people up, but we'll have a link to those exact specs that you should be following. So getting into the next one, I like this bullet just because it's, let it breathe. Let your podcast artwork breathe. Don't create something that is too complicated because it's, it's not gonna get like, it's, it's due because podcast artwork is too small.

5:41 Yes. And that really brings up a point that I'm sure we're gonna go in, which is just like text size and text in general and making sure that it is big enough and in the right, you know, in the right area on the artwork in order to be seen immediately and pretty much read like within one or two seconds. Yeah. That, yes, that part definitely goes into some don'ts as well. You know, there's, there's the ying and the yang here, and for as complicated as you want it to be, it might be fun, but it, it has to be legible. So one of the things that I really like to tell people to do as well is to go into podcast directories and take a look at what is on there currently, see what the general vibe is as of variety now because you know it in any creative medium, trends come and go here. And so, you know, sometimes you'll see a lot of these different types of colors or the spot or, you know, the layout. It's, it's a lot.

6:47 Yeah. And I would, I would say the perfect example for this is, um, to look at just any kind of, any, any, any directory with true crime in it. Like, because True crime became like, you know, surge during the pandemic and just became this huge platform for so many different people, so many diverse opinions and shockingly so many real true crime stories. And it has had many different alterations as money has been thrown into the category, the designs have definitely enhanced, definitely have changed. And if you just literally scroll down it, you can already start to see some patterns, some different, you know, what's different, what's the same, A lot of red, a lot of black, a lot of dark like gritty imagery, usually like, you know, forensics files or like sketchy like houses where the crime happened or like, you know, like broken family photos and things like that. It's like, it very much has like its own like voice and very much like has made itself its own genre and the imagery really is starting to go along with that.

7:50 But now it's really starting to break out and become a little bit more, cause at first they literally look all the same. So now it's really starting to break out and people are starting to look a little different start to, you know, their brands are becoming a little bit stronger, the voices are becoming a little bit stronger. So you can already start to see both where people are looking the same and where they're starting to look a little different. What are some of your like favorite and some of the ones like trends that you hate and, you know, I, I get in there and I see some of the stuff that it is like, you know, immediately if you like it or not. Sometimes it's unmemorable, sometimes you really like it and then other times you're like, I will not listen to this because this looks bad. . Yeah. And I have definitely done that last one. . Yeah, I'm a very visual person. So like if, if if I don't like what I'm looking at, then I'm gonna stop looking at it.

8:40 And that usually means looking at something else. Uh, . Yeah. But definitely some, some, I would say definitely some visual rules is once again, going back to the text, making sure the text is taking up enough space on the artwork. I like to say it needs to be at least 30% of what you see on that little box. And a good rule of that is the, the rules of third, which comes from photography. So if you guys ever look at your phones and you see those little lines when you're trying to take a picture and like that little box, you'll see like these little, you know, usually nine boxes. That is the rule of third. And it's really about filling. Like if you even take a little piece of paper, make a box, make, you know, nine boxes in that box using the rule, you know, using thirds, your artwork should be taken up at least three of those boxes.

9:27 So either that's three in a row, which is what we usually see. Usually a row in the middle or a row at the top. A row at the bottom has actually doesn't really follow Apple's new guidelines. So you're kind of gonna see that starting to get phased out. But usually it's like title right in the middle as big as possible or right at the top as big as possible, taking up three of those kind of those boxes. So I would say that's probably the first thing that will get you noticed because that's the first thing people are looking for. They're looking for that title. A good, a great example of this is obviously our podcast Insider because that was really the main thing of like making those, those three boxes right in the middle, the text, um, some other good typography ones, which is just like ones that really rely on, you know, that text kind of thing.

10:10 One that I really like is the Real Housewives of Dungeons and Dragons, which is, I was gonna say get ready for a lot of nerdy podcasts because that's, that's where I fall in as I've listened . So get ready for a lot of these references. So yeah, the Real, the Real Housewives of Dungeons and Dragons is obviously a spin off of the Real Housewives, but not these Real Housewives. Were in a fantasy world and they pretty much just use not an exact exact branding compared to the Real Housewives, but they just have like the Real Housewives of Dungeon and Dragons, uh, at the bottom. And then all of the, uh, all the different characters kind of like posing at the top. So again, that's just like a really instant way to be like, oh, this is Real Housewives, people who know Real Housewives know this kind of format, know this kind of pattern. And you know, they see the different cast members like all posing in a very similar way that you would see on the show.

11:03 And that actually gets into one of my visual prot tips, which is to mimic the reference. So if your show is about, um, you know, if it's about Real Housewives and like mimic what Real Housewives does for their visuals, or if it's about like sports, like obviously have like, you know, maybe the sports teams insignias or like something that represents the sports teams. Uh, obviously when you go to, uh, a lot of like fan casts, so like when you see stuff about like different shows or bit like that, they'll usually match the look and feel of the show like a South Park reenactment or like a, um, when you look into like Seinfeld or like these other like old school shows that people do like these recap shows, they'll usually use their image again not to copy because that is plagiarizing, don't do that, but matching the look tone and feel and maybe like the shapes that you would normally see incorporated with this, uh, reference to use that to mimic into your podcasting.

11:57 I feel like Real Housewives is a perfect example of, I mean, just saying the name is a perfect example of, uh, using that reference to, you know, boost the attention to your show. That does get into one of the things that I had on the don't list as well. It's absolutely used that used that reference. The, you know, the reason behind the show as part of it because people are are going to understand it and it is, you know, potentially in within like fair use, but overall a lot of the time if people are copying it because they just like the way that it looks, that's gonna get you into legal problems.

12:41 Uh, so we always recommend that you stay away from explicit content, other intellectual property, branding, anything like that. And if you are going to go that route, make sure that you're in the clear, know what you're doing . Yeah. And that's a good, uh, point for, cause I know, uh, one of the things we were gonna talk about was just like, make sure, like show it to someone else. Yeah. Like make sure you get like a second opinion. Make sure you get some feedback because they might be like, oh, this looks a lot like X, Y, Z and you don't even know X, Y, Z existed. And you're like, oh, well, can't do that now. . Yeah, you, you wanna make sure that you're not setting yourself down a bad road already. . If I could give you one piece of advice, the more eyes the better .

13:24 I fully agree with that. And then I see people in podcast Facebook groups who will give you, you know, their top four selections and people will, will give their opinions and vote and say, you know, like, I like B or I like number three or something like that. And you have to, if you're going to ask for feedback like that, you have to take it and you have to, you know, be confident in your decision as well. This is your show. You've done the work, you've done the research, you know what will come across the best and you just have to be confident in your own decision. That's one of the things that we also recommend to do beforehand is like, you have probably done, whether you realize it or not, with this fun phrase, like, you know, what your listener persona is to some extent. And that is, who do you think is gonna be listening to this? Like, or if you're changing your artwork right now, who is listening to it and why are you changing this? And like, what do you think is gonna be the best for the show?

14:25 So as long as you're doing this creatively and willing to take that criticism or you know, even the compliments, like that's gonna lead you on a good path. Yeah. I actually, I have a good example of this, which is, um, again, another d and d show. So this one, uh, is called not another d and d podcast. Uh, you know, again, very much coined from, you know, not another teen movie or not another kind of this movie that we used to see way back in the nineties. And they pretty much, they're a d and d podcast, but they do like a bunch of different seasons. And so to change the artwork, they'll usually like change like the emblems of the, that usually represents the character. So like one year, one time it was a mushroom and then they change it to like a little moon, then to change it, you know, just these cute little icons.

15:11 And then they changed the background, but they left the name the exact same, the design, the exact same, they would just make like these little updates. But because of that background change you could tell immediately like, oh, this is a new season, this is a new campaign, this is a new version of this show. And, uh, what I like about that is that it's easy to update, which is like a huge, huge, huge, huge thing that I've noticed is like make, when you start to think about podcast artwork, it's like, okay, well if you're gonna have a season one, then like any, any, anyone with a goal, the goal is, you know, to make it to a season two or like a season three. So it's like, okay, well how would I change up the way I look, the way I talk, the way I feel?

15:52 Um, when it starts to get into these new seasons, which is usually something we don't see people think about until their, you know, first show or their first show starts to get to like a lot of listens or like a lot of different, um, feedback again, like a lot of different opinions. And then you start to really realize what the show is about. And so season two is a great time to again, change the artwork, but obviously keep it something the same so that it's just like easy and very flexible to update. That's a really good point because it's really easy to get overwhelmed mm-hmm. hyperfocused on just this. And you have to keep the iterations open for the future as well. It's one of the things that we tell people to do is people will judge it.

16:36 So if you don't want, like, you have to keep it open for whoever you want the future audience to be as well. Yeah. And like for my, for my example, a non RDD podcast, theirs is a very like typographic, like very fancy made by a designer who is a very good designer. Um, so if you don't have, you know, a very good designer in your back pocket, uh, another great way to kind of keep that, keep it the same but keep it flexible that we see a lot with like business professionals, industry expert, public figures, things like that is they just do like a new headshot or like a new portrait cuz like, you know, there's, they're, they're very face forward. I know Mike said like he, um, has a face for radio, but for the people who have like a face for tv, you know, they're constantly getting head shots, they're constantly getting new photos taken of them.

17:24 So it's just so easy to just slap a new photo on your podcast artwork and call it, you know, new season. And a person who does this, probably to the extent of anyone else is, um, Michelle Obama because she has so many different podcasts going on, so many different seasons, a whole network and pretty much the whole network is just her face. So it's just a new face, new headshot, new photo, new season art, new tv, you know, and like when she guests on different, uh, podcasts, you know, she has a new portrait for that. So, you know, if you're someone like that who is constantly getting, you know, new headshots, you know, you're very face forward. You want people to know who you are and recognize you immediately or know that like this advice, this, you know, professional opinion is coming from you specifically, like you are the brand.

18:11 Then just, you know, swapping out a new headshot I see is like another easy way to update every year as you start to get these headshots taken. That moves into, you can do podcast episode artwork as well. And a lot of people that do that will use a template and just swap out whatever Photoshop or whatever, you know, stock image that they have. That's a great example of you like using those headshots, especially if you're doing, you know, like a more business professional show and you have a guest every time and you're like, okay, send us your headshot so that we can swap it in for this episode. Specific artwork, like the show artwork overall is not changing, but you can have episode specific and so it can be really cool and fun and you know, if you're the creative yourself, it's probably a really cool thing to do as part of the show. If you're not, I would recommend probably having someone on your team do that for you.

19:09 it's, it can be a lot of work, but you know, it's, it's definitely not a requirement. It can be something fun to do. It might be something you wanna do like for a holiday or for like a series as part of your overall podcast. You're like, okay, well the next four episodes are gonna be on this, so we're gonna use this for the, like this one. It's, you know, it's just like a fun extra. Yes. And I, of course you have a perfect example . So there is this, uh, music podcast called Dissects. I think it's pretty popular now, but it's pretty much this guy who will dissect like different songs or somehow he'll sometimes dissect the entire album of like an artist.

19:51 Um, some really popular ones that he's done, I believe is like Mac Miller, he's done some Jay-Z, uh, Kendrick Lamar. And so he will change the podcast to again mimic the reference of the musician's album artwork usually. So like I know from Mac Millers he did like circles, anything like that, like he'll match the look tone and feel of that artist. But, you know, uh, an album is only, you know, 12 songs. So he's changing pretty much every season is a new album. And so every season he's changing the artwork, but the typography stays exactly the same and just the background imagery matches the look tone and feel of whatever artist that he is dissecting at that time. Yeah, that's a perfect example.

20:31 Mm-hmm. . And then like, he'll do special episodes where it's just like one song or like he'll just do the overall breath of the artist's work. Like I think that's what he did for Kendrick Lamar. Um, and that's where, you know, again, he's swapping out these artworks in and out, but it gives him this beautiful array of like, just, if you just look at the artworks altogether, it's just like, oh, you really get like a, a different vibe with every single one. But you know, the topic is exactly the same. What's your biggest do and what's your biggest don't for podcast artwork? Ooh. I mean definitely my biggest do is that title and making sure that title is big.

21:15 Make sure that title is readable and make sure that title is tight. And obviously making sure that title is not clashing with the background or any other kind of bits and bobs that you have on the artwork. That's probably the biggest do the biggest don't I have. Hmm. Cause there's so many is like just picking the biggest one. All right. I'll give you my, my biggest do yes is probably the colors. Mm-hmm. I will respond harshly to significant contrasting colors that are, you know, too dark or just too bright.

21:57 I will immediately scroll past and like not even get to the title if it looks like it's too much. Yeah. I was gonna say, like, for me, like, and that's a good point that you mentioned, like what would make me scroll past something about even looking at it, it would probably be when it's like just a little too generic. Mm-hmm. . Like when you look at, um, again, if you go back to the true Crimes thing, like there's so many and a lot of them are starting to look a well for a while. A lot of 'em are looking exactly the same. So I literally did not even know where to start. And that's kind of why I liked these gaming hobbies and kind of like those podcasts artworks a little bit more because it forces them to be unique and different. Cause they're like, okay, well we're all gonna use dice, or we're like, we're all gonna use like the same thing as like a visual signifier.

22:42 So it's like, how do we take those visual things that people recognize our genre are like our topic four, but Twisted are move it are move it around so that it, it matches our brand and it looks different from everyone else's. And to your point, color is a great way to stand out a little bit harder because pretty much what we did was we looked at our, uh, genre that podcast Insiders in and we're like, okay, what color do we not see on this page? And the answer was Orange . I. Remember, I remember that it was, uh, when we came out with Podcast Insider a couple years ago and made our new artwork, it was very much following our blueberry colors at the time with the dark blue and the light blue and a little bit of green. And in this, you immediately went to directories and you were like, Nope, this is what people are not using. So that's what we're gonna use to stand out.

23:36 Not using it in like bad way, but just you, you took that opportunity. Yeah. And you know, to your point, like back in the day when there, when you, when there was less, just less podcasts around, like the podcast Insider one really stood out because they match our colors, it matched blueberry. It was great. We immediately saw it being overfilled with a lot of blues, a lot of dark blues, a lot of light blues, a lot of white. And so like immediately like we could see like, oh, we're getting lost. And if you think about, you know, a magazine stand, like these companies pay a lot of money to make sure that cover is as stand out as possible from all the other covers. So when you start to think about these libraries and when you have just a little square to work with, it's like, okay, how do I stand out from the at least three squares that are going to be next to my artwork, let alone the hundreds of squares that they're gonna be scrolling through?

24:28 You know, I'll, I'll give you some time to think about your don't, but my biggest don't is is when, um, it looks a little too word art or clip art or like old and cliche. That's one of the things that I really don't like is if the artwork is boring, I assume the show is boring. If it looks like you didn't put enough, if you did it yourself, but you're not a creative and you didn't, you know, have someone assist you with this or hire someone to do it, I'm going to assume that you were putting in the same level of effort and care into your show. So I will just skip it. Yeah. And I think that would probably be my, again, that kind of goes along with my biggest one of like, don't be too generic.

25:12 Because it's like if you are looking at, you know, that blank square and you're like, okay, let's throw a title on it and then like, just throw whatever image behind it that, you know, doesn't clash at the title too much. It's like, okay, well that's gonna be everyone's first thought. So it's like, so what would be your second thought and what would be your third thought and what would be your fourth thought? And as you start to go down that rabbit hole, that's where you start to find your uniqueness and be like, well, this is what I like. And if it meets all of these criteria, then like, boom, you got yourself a brand. You're. Golden. Yeah. All right. Well we are, uh, we highly suggest that you take a look at the accompanying blog post for this so that you can actually see what we are describing in detail. But, uh, any last tips or do's and don't that you wanna give to the people?

25:58 Uh, yeah, I mean, and uh, our last conversation pretty much like a, a good kicking off point of just like, what is the brands, you know, like what is it that makes your show special? And that's not just an audio thing, that's also a video thing. I mean, not a visual, it's both an audio and a visual, visual thing. And especially when you start to get into video, it's like, okay, how do I want my show to look? How do I want it to, how do I want the tone to be like, is this serious? Is this fun? Is this relaxed? And then like, how do you want the listener to feel? And I think that's kind of like a big point of like when someone looks at your artwork, like how do you want them to feel about your show? Like is it gritty? Is it supposed to be fun? Is it supposed to be interesting? Is it supposed to be exciting?

26:39 Like making sure you have some kind of emotional trigger is what really makes the eye sit there and look at it for like that second longer and then a second longer and then a second longer. And so I would say making, aligning that look with your tone and then combining it with a feeling like that is how you make a brand. And then you can take that and turn that into a visual audio, um, you know, wording, things like that and bring it all together into one like cohesive package. I think that's a really great way to end the show is just making sure that you are creating a memorable brand for your podcast. Aaron, thanks so much for joining us today.

27:23 No problem. Thank you for having me. Thanks for joining us. Come back next week and in the meantime, head to podcast insider.com for more information to subscribe, share, and read our show notes. To check out our latest suite of services and learn how blueberry can help you leverage your podcast. Visit blueberry.com. That's blueberry without the ease. We couldn't afford the ease.