How Do You Consume Podcasts – PCI 481

0:05 - Welcome back to Podcast Insider. - I'm Mike Dell here at Blueberry, and, with - me as Dave and Mackenzie. - There you go. Dave, - tell them who you are. They probably forgot - since the last time they did one of - these. - Actually, if they've been watching YouTube, they see - me almost every week when I get a - video out. Yeah. I'm Dave Clements. I am, - one of the support team members, and I - am making - video content - for our YouTube channel. So go check that - out too. Alright. And, Mackenzie, - reintroduce - yourself. I'm sure everybody knows us, but let's - let's do this just in case we get - some new people. - I hope there's some people who don't know - me at this point listening to this podcast.

0:49 - Mackenzie Bennett. I am director of marketing here - at Blueberry and, - cohost for Podcast Insider for many years now. - So, hopefully, we get some new listeners. Yeah. - We as you guys know, - that have been with us all along, we - took a bit of a hiatus. - We're revamping the show a little bit and, - being less, - techy, geeky, and preachy and, just having a - conversation. - And, Dave came up with a really good - topic for this episode, - that, you know, - for a pod caster, this is also kinda - good things to know about your audience. So - if you can figure it out what they're - doing, - you can, adapt what you're doing to, what - works for them. So we're gonna be talking - about - how we consume podcasts. And I and I - hesitate to to say the word listen because - there's more to podcasting these days than just - listening.

1:48 - It's much to my chagrin, - but - it's okay. You know? - So - how do you consume podcast? - And, I guess, - Mackenzie, - I think, probably best - to start with you. - Okay. - Yeah. I - I've always been a bit of an oddball - in the blueberry group, I feel like. Yeah. - Oddball. You can send the sentence there. No. - I'm kidding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. That's - perfect. - Podcast done. - I I have never been a subscriber, - so - I am not subscribed to any podcast out - there. - Following some of the other apps? Yeah. Ex - yeah. Exactly.

2:31 - I have never been - connected - to a show in that, you know, automated - way, I guess you could say. - So I just - typically would find the show - on social media - or, - I mean, back in the day, - I listened to like, I I started listening - to podcasts because of NPR. - So - that was just like I was listening, - to their radio - and they got me on there by talking - about the shows. - But - I am mainly - and I'd say mainly when I say, like, - 99.9% - of the podcasts that I consume, - are through Apple Podcasts with just the audio.

3:18 - But - I'm finding it through social probably. - A friend recommended it maybe. - I heard about it - on some interview - somewhere, - or I found it in the - directory, - like, through Apple. - Through, like, the - you know, their algorithms have gotten better or - worse, - whatever you - whatever you think depending on how yours shows - up. But, you know, it's I think it's - definitely done both over the years, especially with - AI - taking over every algorithm nowadays. - So - generally, - that's how I listen - to podcasts. And I say listen because that - is the majority of the way that I - consume them. Do do you listen to a - lot of podcasts?

4:04 - So I go through binging. - During the summer when I'm maybe in the - car more, - going on trips and whatnot, - yes. For sure. - I'd say spring and fall, not so much. - And then winter again, - maybe with some holidays or just like being - cooped up, - I will, - but I'll listen to them, - like once or twice a week at this - point, - for like random episodes. I'm not - solely invested in, like, a handful of shows - at the moment. I just there's so much - content. - Yes. There's a lot of content and, - you know, finding new stuff. You know? Like, - I'll I'll go in spurts, you know, just - where I'll listen to a lot of new - podcasts, and then I don't listen to very - many at all. And, you know, I have - my core bunch. But Mhmm.

5:00 - So but, yeah, that makes sense. - And that's kinda you know, we get these - tech, you know, tech support calls and and - emails and what, you know, how come my, - listenership's down this month or up this month - or, you know, we get both questions. - And a lot of that is cyclic. - You know, your - core audience, - you know, maybe they got better things to - do. You know, like, the beginning of summer - is always, - you know, at least in the Northern Hemisphere, - beginning of summer is always a slow period, - you know, both in, you know, our support - calls, - podcast listening in general, new show startups, - all that stuff - kinda takes a break in June and July - and then starts to roll back - in, you know, octo or August, September, - October for sure. But, - anyway so, - Dave, how how do you consume - podcasts?

6:01 - You know, my my listening has changed a - lot. - I've - I know I've been listening to podcasts for - a long time. Like, I've been doing this - for almost fifteen years, but I've been listening - for at least a couple years longer than - that. - And - I - used to, - like, if I was on, at the time, - Twitter and somebody was like, yeah. I got - a podcast. Immediately, - subscribe, listen to whatever episodes were out. Again, - kinda like Mackenzie, like, I would binge, except - I would stay subscribed because it was like, - oh, I gotta get the next one. So - at some point, I probably had, - I don't know, like, a 100 different shows - that I was subscribed to. And then I - couldn't keep up, so I deleted everything. And - then I go back and find new shows - or find the same old shows again.

6:52 - Primarily, - I was - using, - I've totally forgot what it's called. Oh, Podcast - Addict. - Yep. And then when I went all in - on Apple, - I did not use the Apple Podcasts app. - I use Overcast. - Mhmm. - And now, I'm kind of in this weird - and this is where I can definitely connect - with - the overall industry vibe of going more toward - video. I tend to listen to stuff more - on YouTube, - which - feels very, - blasphemous, - because, - you know, I've always been an audio podcast - guy.

7:39 - But a lot of the content I consume - is on YouTube. And, like, literally before we - started recording, - I was working on some stuff. And I - had a YouTube video playing on my phone, - and I was just listening to it Right. - While doing my work. - So that's shifted a lot for me. - And I will say - that - I don't listen to near as many shows - as I used to. And Mhmm. Now those - have almost been replaced with audiobooks or YouTube. - There are some shows that I still am - subscribed to that I'll listen to every once - in a while. So I'm kind of in - a dip era right now as far as - my audio or as far as my podcast - consumption goes in general.

8:24 - I I've really gotten into almost - making the video essays that I love to - watch, turning those into podcast because I have - YouTube premium. So I can just shut my - phone screen off - and just listen to them. - Sure. And, yeah. Like well, with me, I - don't know. I started way back in the - day, and that's, - you know - you know, before there were phone apps and - all that, I had the iPod and the - iPodder - app and synced it with iTunes, - which is, no longer a thing. - Yep. - And, you know, so I've always - subscribed - and downloaded - things that I listen to, - But I've - evolved too, you know. And when you get - to the phone, you know, for a while, - I used Apple Podcasts.

9:17 - I've tried a whole bunch of them. I - mean, I probably got eight apps on my - phone still, you know. And I have certain - shows I listen to on certain apps just - because - they're kinda - you know, like, podcasting two point o, is - a show that Adam Curry and Dave Jones - does. - And they go live, - and so I listen to them on an - app that picks up the live - so I can listen - live, - when they can when they come on on - Friday afternoons. - And - but for my day to day, I'm I - I just counted it up. I've got 27 - shows that I'm following and or, - subscribed to on Pocket Casts.

10:04 - I like to playlist my shows. - So, you know, I I subscribe to a - bunch - of aviation related shows, a bunch - of podcast related shows for work, - some other, - you know, like daily I have some dailies, - you know, a couple of new shows that - that put out daily episodes. - You know, and then I have just a - a gee whiz fun playlist. - So if I feel like listening about airplanes, - I start that playlist. If I feel like - listening to podcasts about podcasting, - I listen to that playlist. - But, yeah, I've I've pretty much completely switched - over to Pocket Cast - for my daily driver.

10:48 - But I too have been sucked into the - YouTube - ecosystem. - My main television - is YouTube. - I - rarely watch - any other thing on my big screen TV. - It's, you know yes. I've I've - subscribed to Paramount because I'm a Star Trek - person. You look above me over here, there's - a an enterprise - poster. - And then I'm also, we have Netflix because - my wife likes Netflix, and, I'm kinda stuck - on the blacklist here lately - on Netflix. - But, for the most part, you know, we - have an antenna for regular television.

11:31 - Everything I watch myself is pretty much YouTube. - And I too now - do what you do, Dave, is I'll start - a YouTube video, - silence the phone, and listen on my earbuds - or walking around or - driving or whatever. - I went to Dallas - a while back for a conference. - And on the way down, - it was the first time because I always - used to say, oh, you can't jump on - a airplane and watch YouTube. Yep. I I - watch YouTube the whole way, both directions. - You know? Starlink on the airplane was just - flawless and worked worked great.

12:12 - So can't say that no more. But Yeah. - Yeah. I think that it shows - a a big shift. - You know, a couple years ago, I remember - when, like, the, you know, video podcasting, quote, - unquote, - when that conversation kind of started now video - podcasting's, like, almost always been a thing. It's - just now we have the Internet speeds and - the technology to keep up with it, - to be able to take your phone - and, you know, walk outside - and put it around the yard while having - a YouTube video play in the background. - Now you have to pay them to do - that. That's that's the one disadvantage of YouTube.

12:55 - That's that's true unless you wanna, you know, - fry your phone and just Yeah. Leave your - screen. On the whole time. Yeah. But then - you also have to keep touching it, right, - to make sure it doesn't black out? - No. You can I mean, the YouTube will - hold hold it open? Yeah. Yeah. It depends - on how you set things on your phone. - But, - you know, like, I remember just it was - literally just a couple of years ago where - that was the conversation is like, - oh, you like, video podcasting. That's this big - thing. And I just remember - going, I don't understand that. I don't know - why anybody would want to - make a video podcast because video is a - lot of work. And then, - you know, I don't know. I just I'm - gonna listen to you anyway. And now I'm - sitting here doing that exact same thing, - and it just kind of came naturally because - I watch a lot of YouTube. So, well, - I got something to do. So phone goes - in the pocket, and I go and I - do something else. Sometimes I have earbuds. Sometimes - it's just playing from my phone.

13:56 - Mhmm. - And I don't know. It's just it's interesting - to - see where - you know, we, as people who are in - the industry, may resist - some of these trends and just be like, - And, you know, video podcasting - may not ever be - super popular, - but it's something that we can't really ignore. - No. And - it's kind of nice to feel like, hey, - you know what? I have embraced this, but - now I have an opinion - on it. Whereas a couple years ago, I - didn't. And I was pretty - I was pretty - down on video podcasting. I remember telling people, - nah, don't do video.

14:39 - My my thought has changed on that - where I just go, - audio is easier to get into. So that - will always be the number one thing I - recommend. If you wanna play around, if you - want to figure out if making a podcast - is your thing, start with audio. It's so - much less overhead. It's a lot less work - too. - But if you have the resources and you - have the time, - make a video podcast. But just make sure - that you're doing it well because then - people will want to watch it. Yeah. But - they may not watch it. Like, there are - statistics in the most recent video as of - this recording - that I posted - to our YouTube channel.

15:22 - I think it was like - like, YouTube kind of was leading, - versus - Apple and Spotify - in - listenership. - So I thought that was really, really interesting, - and I'll be I'll be interested to watch - it as, you know, the next couple of - years come and go - as more - video - adoption comes because we've got, you know, HLS - coming with Apple Podcasts. - Spotify has podcast - video podcasts, - and - rumor has it they're gonna open that up - at some point. - So, - yeah, it's been interesting to watch and - actually have an opinion on it. Yeah. There - is still - something special about audio, and there'll always be - audio.

16:08 - Oh, yeah. And and, you know, I I - look at the TV industry. Okay. Radio came - first, then TV, - but there's still radio. - And it's still you know, now the radio - business isn't doing so hot right lately. But - but there's always gonna be that. And, you - know, I I argue - a little bit - that you should still even if you're doing - video, you should also put it out as - audio - because, - you know, like, YouTubers, - you know, our Vidapod product is because is - pretty popular with YouTubers - that say, hey. You know, if we're just - doing a YouTube - channel, - I'm just on YouTube.

16:51 - It doesn't go anywhere. - At least with the audio side of it. - You know, now not all YouTube videos lend - themselves to - audio, - But the ones that do can really, you - know, gain some audience for both for their - YouTube channel and just people that aren't gonna - watch YouTube. - Yep. You know? And so it's it's an - advantage to be as everywhere as you can. - You know? And then I know I I - don't wanna sound like we're YouTube fanboys and - girls here. But, - Oh, I am not. You know? And I - was just getting ready to to say something. - Like, I talked to you recently, Mackenzie, about - some video that I was like, oh, you - might be interested in watching this, and you're - just like, - that is not my thing. I'm sorry.

17:40 - And I'm like, okay. - Which I find fascinating because, like so age - age wise, like, there is a few years - difference Yeah. In in in us. We we're - the same generation, - but different ends of that generation. - Yeah. So it's interesting to see how you - consume - content versus the way I do. Yeah. I - mean, the entire time, like, when you were - saying, - it is - easiest for for content creators to - do audio at this point. Like, if they're - gonna start a podcast, it's probably the easiest - to just do audio, - which is true. But I feel like it - might be the opposite for consumers.

18:22 - The easiest thing to find right now to - consume is video. - Oh, good. That's a great observation. - Like, it really is. - I hadn't thought about it that way. And - that's one of the advantages of a video - is you are in more places. - You - can get found I mean, YouTube's one of - the big biggest search engines out there. And - you'll be found there - if people are looking for your particular content - that you'll be found there where you may - not be found on Apple Podcasts. You might - not be found on Spotify. - So, you know, I'm always I've always been - an advocate of being as everywhere as possible.

19:03 - Now you can put just plain audio on - YouTube. We have that integration here at Blueberry. - I don't find that compelling. It's you know, - I'm gonna be staring at if I'm looking - at the screen, I'm gonna be staring at - your podcast logo - and hearing the audio. - Yeah. From from a video marketing standpoint too, - this is something I've - I've again, watching YouTube. I learned Yeah. That, - like, the way that people watch - YouTube is they look at the thumbnail. - They look at the title. They look at - the thumbnail again. And if - if that if the thumbnail is interesting enough - and matches the title well enough, people will - watch your video. Mhmm. And so - it's it's interesting because, like, that's a big - reason that I've always been, - like, do I really wanna put my audio - podcast on YouTube?

19:58 - Even though I know people are just listening, - they're not looking at it. It's always been - one of those things in the back of - my head. I don't want them to just - look at my cover art, but I also - don't wanna have to develop some kind of - video. I don't wanna have to make AI - video for - my audio podcast. It just doesn't make sense. - So, - yeah. It's - Interesting. Okay. So you guys are, yeah, you - guys are definitely YouTube people. I have never - been and never will be a YouTube person. - If there is content that is long enough, - I'm watching it on my TV from a - production company. - If - you know? - I am, however, a TikTok person because they - those are short. Mhmm. And I can go - through - 10 different topics in fifteen minutes. And, unfortunately, - that is how my brain works. And that - fifteen minutes will really be three hours of - Yeah. Exactly.

20:51 - So so I'm never gonna watch your podcast - on YouTube. That's never gonna happen for me. - However Mhmm. - I will see the clips - or someone mention your podcast Mhmm. On TikTok. - Yep. And then I will go listen to - it on on Apple Podcasts. Mhmm. I will - do that. That is in my, like, in - my - way that I consume podcasts. That's how I - find the show sometimes. - Right. And if you if you're Discovery. - Yeah. If it's the discovery for me, like, - that's how I'm gonna find it. - I'm never gonna watch it. I'm gonna listen - to it, but I'm gonna find it probably - through video at this point. At least, - you know, partially, whether someone mentions it in - a comment, whether - it is a clip from the actual show, - whether it is the show's actual, - you know, - official account or if it is a fan - account or what or if it is just, - like, offhand.

21:45 - That's a big way that I'm probably gonna - find it nowadays. - Right. Yeah. You know, - YouTube videos, I I do watch it on - my big screen TV 99% - of the time. I I'm not of the - demographic where I'm gonna hold my phone up - and - watch a long form video on my phone. - I watch lots of shorts, and I don't - do TikTok in particular, but I do shorts - on YouTube, which are similar things and - and all that. I I - never really got into TikTok. I I loaded - it once, and then - three hours later said, no. I can't do - this. Mhmm. - You know? - Three hours. I'm I'm, like, six hours later - going, oh, I should probably go to sleep - before I have to wake up in an - hour. Yeah.

22:30 - Yeah. And and, you know, those even the, - you know, YouTube shorts, same idea, you know, - the Mhmm. You can really get sucked into - it. - And - I guess that's the goal, but, you know, - you do learn stuff. And then, you know, - like a lot of the shorts people that - I've - discovered because of watching short form video, - I discover them. - I look at their YouTube channel, and if - they also have an audio podcast, I'll find - them that way. I mean, there's, - you know, the the whole media I mean, - podcasting is, you know, you get down to - it. Podcasting is a distribution method, not a - format. - Sure. You know? And, - you know, you wanna be real stickler. It's - RSS, but that's, you know, the ship sailed, - a little bit.

23:18 - Yeah. We don't get to decide that. The - the consumer is At the core, at the - core, it is just a distribution method. And - if you could distribute - yours is that a word? Distribute? Distribute? There - you go. Yeah. Infast is on the wrong - syllable, but you got it. Yeah. There we - go. But, you know, as long as you - can be as everywhere as you can, who - cares what they call it? You know? Yep. - The consumer of the media doesn't care whether - it's called a podcast, a YouTube channel, a - TV show, a radio show. Doesn't matter. It's - the distribution. - And being as, - you know, as - agile as far as putting your stuff everywhere - you can be reasonably - is a good thing.

24:00 - You know, - And I you know? I - personally, I'm not gonna watch - a a video on my phone unless it's - a short one. But on my big TV, - no problem. You know? Got an hour long - show. As long as it's interesting and compelling, - I'll sit and watch it. - Yep. I watch this, - this one YouTube channel. He doesn't well, he - does a podcast, but not of this show. - But his he does a a weekly video - that can be up to two and a - half, three hours sometimes. - And I make sure I I watch that, - you know, usually sometime over the weekend. - It comes out on Friday. And - but that's not everybody's use case. You know?

24:46 - And, then, of course, they listen to one - audio podcast that can be up to three - hours twice a week. - Yeah. I I did wanna touch on, - Mackenzie's, like, - you know, finding podcasts on, - TikTok. - Yeah. - So something we we've started to do to - kinda pull pull back our blueberry curtain here - is, - we do what's called social listening. Basically, it's - getting out into - the the conversations that are happening online - and going, what are you guys talking about - as podcasters? - Mhmm. And, - one thing that I see over and over - and over again - is - people becoming - very obsessed - with making clips of their show. And, like, - I've seen people just, like, bend over backward - to figure out how to make it work.

25:40 - So if I could give just a little - piece of practical advice, - what I would do, - rather than having a full blown, oh, I - need a soft box and this type of - light and this super fancy camera, and I - have to spend six hours setting things up, - grab a webcam, - place it somewhere wherever you record, or if - you record on Zoom, just record the Zoom - call in the video, - and use that to clip it. There are - plenty of - services out there that you can take your - video when it's done, - And Yep. It will find clips for you - and tell you, like, hey. These are pretty - good clips based on the transcript and things - like that. Just do that and make it - as simple as possible - so that you are not killing yourself - to - get all of that content out there. Because - even even doing - the simplest podcast can easily become a full - time job. And this comes from from a - guy who's done a bunch of different kinds - of podcasts. And, like, now I'm even going, - okay. Well, I'm gonna start a new audio - drama podcast, - even though I don't actually have time to - do it. Yeah. But I wanna do it.

26:52 - It sounds like a lot of fun and - a lot of work. I'm guilty as charged. - I've started and stopped more podcasts than anybody - I know, - because it is work. - You know, I'm I'm I was doing a - daily here recently, and I sort of been - on hiatus with that one as well. - And that one was super easy. It took - me, you know, a five minute show took - me ten minutes to produce, and that was - it. - But another, thing, you know, along your lines - as far as clipping the show, instead of - clipping it, you could also promo it by - picking up your phone - and doing a selfie video. Hey. I've got - this week on blah blah blah blah blah, - you know, and then throw that up on - you on TikTok and YouTube and wherever else - short form videos go. I mean, how easy - is that?

27:43 - You know, it doesn't have to actually be - a clip of your show. - No. It could be a clip - about your show. - Yeah. That is good enough for me. - That's that's generally good enough for me in - terms of, like, the promotion. But Mhmm. Also, - in terms of, like, - listening, - I've seen this happen in - the the TV shows that I'm watching Mhmm. - But also - in the podcast that I'm listening to. A - lot of limited series because - production has gotten - so long in between season one and season - two that I am done with it. I - am done with a show that only had - eight episodes, and then you want me to - come back three years later. I'm gonna do - it for some really damn good shows. But - in general, - like, I'm not gonna care.

28:35 - I'm just I'm not coming back. And so - I really - have have seen myself change over to I - wanna get in, - and I care about - this six episode show that really knocks it - out of the park. Mhmm. - Instead of, - you know, every - every day, every three days, every whatever - of a mediocre episode that just feels like - I'm I'm eavesdropping - on a conversation I don't care about at - a coffee shop. - Yeah. Yeah. I I want to be enthralled. - That's what I care about at this point - for my content. Try try being a Star - Trek fan.

29:16 - The dedication? - They do 10 episodes, - and then three years later, do 10 more - episodes. And then three years later, do you - know, it's - yeah. You know? Yeah. You know? Then they - have a a spin off series that's a - totally different name that connects to four seasons - ago. Yeah. Oh my god. My friends were - asking recently. They're like, are you watching House - of the Dragon? No. Are you gonna watch - the new Harry Potter TV series? No. No. - I watched all the movies. I read the - books. - I'm good. - Like, I'm good for Harry Potter. I don't - care about Game of Thrones. Also, they trashed - the last season. So, no, you ruined it. - I don't wanna come back. - Yeah. See, the trick there is, like, my - wife and I do, we pick a series - that is done.

30:01 - And then you go watch it after. And - then we binge watch that series till we're - done. - And then we pick another one and binge - watch that series till it's done. You know, - like, Blacklist has, what, eleven seasons or something. - We're, like, on season eight. We've been watching - it for six months. - Yep. - Exactly. I I so much of my content - consumption well, I it's kinda interesting because - I feel like I - I just adore long form - Mhmm. - Anything. - You give me - an hour long audio podcast - Mhmm. Or, you know, - a a a video essay.

30:41 - I am here for it. But at the - same time, - I will be more than happy to just - sit and scroll Instagram - on my phone for the same amount of - time Mhmm. And then have a dog bark - and be like, hey. I gotta go outside. - I'm like, okay. But the phone's coming with - me because I'm not done scrolling. Yeah. - So it's just kinda interesting, - like, how how much I do adore long - form - even in Mhmm. - A time when - short form is still super popular. Everybody's trying - to grab your attention, - but I I still love that long form. - Yeah. - And that's, you know, that's that's just to - make make the content you want and consume - the content - you want - the way you want. And that that's something - that, you know, we we're spoiled now.

31:30 - You know, used to be - watching TV involved, oh, Sunday night at 08:00, - I have to be sitting in front of - this box in the in the living room. - And that was it. I mean, there was - no option - to go online. - There was no option to even record it - when I was a kid. - VPRs weren't even invented when I started watching - TV. You know? Right. It's me old. I - get it. - But, you know, and, oh, color? That's actually - in color now? Cool. - That's funny. - But, - you know, hey, that's, you know, my my - generation kind of bridged the gap between, - you know, no technology and all the technology.

32:14 - Right. - Yeah. You know, we've had to adapt. - But, yeah, we're spoiled, you know. And and - here's here's where I - I find it funny - is I'm sitting there watching a TV show. - So we're watching - Star Trek or Blacklist - or some long form TV show, - and it gets to a boring part. I - pull out my phone and I'm looking through - shorts and - scrolling Facebook or whatever. - Really? You're so bored with watching TV that - you need to watch another one? - Yeah. Well, - I mean, this isn't necessarily podcasting related, but, - like, - Netflix has started to tell writers and directors, - you need to change the way that you - shoot your long form content because - you have to you have to make it - as a second screen. That's what they're referring - to it as, - because people are checking their phones.

33:08 - So, - and along those season of stranger things for - that exact reason. - Oh, don't even that's a that's a different - conversation, - and I could be here for years. Yeah. - It's the, - you are on your medium sized screen all - day long, and then you you're done with - that. So then you sit in front of - your big screen to scroll on your tiny - screen. - That's what happens to everyone nowadays. - Yeah. - And, you know, as much as I hate - to admit it, I'm sucked right into the - same thing. - You know? I need to be entertained all - that. Yes. I do. Like, you know, standing - in line at the grocery store, and I - might pull out my phone. Just - well, I'm just standing here.

33:49 - You know? Yeah. And - and and it is relevant to podcasters because - we are - competing with - all of this. - And not not in a bad way, but - we are - we're part of the media landscape as a - podcaster, whether you're doing an audio only show, - a video show, a YouTube channel, - whatever, all the above, we're competing with all - of that stuff, TV included. - Yeah. And I I I think something like, - a a key thing that I think every - podcaster needs to consider if they're not - is - what does your audience - want? - I think when you have a new show, - you don't know, so play around with it.

34:33 - We've talked about it in older episodes of - Podcast Insider to just experiment with your show - because nobody's going to scream at you because - you changed something. - They will tell you, hey. I enjoyed that - or I didn't enjoy that thing that you - got rid of. - But, - again, if you're a new show, - play around with video. It doesn't have to - be the thing that you do, but make - a video component to your audio show. Play - around with it. See how well it's received, - and then lean into that a little bit - more. Or don't do it if you realize - I got two views - versus I got, you know, 50 downloads - on my or listens on my on my - audio podcast. - Because, - you know, - while you are - a creator, you're also a consumer. So take - that consumer mindset into what you are making.

35:22 - Mhmm. That that would be - a a core piece of advice that I - would give podcasters - right now. - Sure. And, - you know, like I say, it's, - we're we're part of that landscape. But as - podcasters - or podcast consumers or - Netflix users, you know, whatever. It's all part - of the same ecosystem - now, - and we need to - do that. And, you know, Blueberry's got some - pretty exciting stuff if you wanna play with - video - coming very soon, - so, - stay tuned for that. But - Yeah. - Any - final words of wisdom on, - podcast consumption or media consumption? Or - no. I I I won't open it up - for complaints.

36:10 - But - I I have a question because I'm curious. - Have either one of you and maybe our - listeners too. Can you leave a comment, chime - in, email Mike McKenzie or myself? - Yeah. I wanna know, have you ever - listened to or watched a podcast - from - a platform like Netflix or Disney plus or - Hulu or anything like that? Because that is - becoming more popular. But I won't wanna say - popular. - It's happening more often. Yeah. It's happening more - often. I wouldn't say popular. - Yeah. You'll you'll have, - you know, - you know, Daredevil - just came out with season two, and, - now there's a Daredevil Born Again podcast - about every episode. Have either of you two - ever - checked one of those out?

37:03 - I'll let you go first, Mackenzie. - You mean, like, the, the, you know, the - podcast about the TV show or whatever? - Yeah. Yeah. - Yes. I have. - There was - oh my god. I'm I'm dating myself. I - sound like Mike saying I'm dating myself. But - I remember - in 2013, - listening - 2012, - 2011, - like, 2013, - listening to a lot of Breaking Bad podcasts. - Yeah. There was not, like, an official one - through AMC at that time because that was - not a thing. But I remember listening to - a lot of, like, fan ones. And then - I have listened to, - there was a last of us podcast - that the creator, - the creator of the show, the creator of - the game, and then the main character in - the game did together. And I listened to - that for season one. And then, - HBO - does podcast for, like, a lot of their - shows now. So I've listened to some random - episodes, - about that.

38:06 - Is that right on the platform that you're - watching the show? - So the when I was listening to The - Last of Us, no. I would go listen - on my phone. Mhmm. - I have watched, - I think, - like, - maybe - the, like, three or four minute - extras - that show after the HBO show - that are part of the podcast - Mhmm. I think. - And then, - I was just over at my friend's house - the other day, and we were scrolling through - Netflix. Then it has, like, a whole section - for podcast that I have not listened to, - but we were, like, scrolling through. And then - we were like, we are not in the - this is, like, not the type of mood - that we're in right now.

38:48 - So no. Yeah. I've heard they're not doing - great over there. So but god. - I'm gonna go back to Star Trek because - that's my that's my experience of that. - But on Paramount, - there you know, that's where all the Star - Treks are now. - It's on Paramount Plus. - And they have a - after show - podcast - style video. So I I don't believe it's - distributed VRSS - anywhere, but if it is, I might - check it out. But - so anytime they're premiering a new series, so, - like, there's 10 episodes of Strange New Worlds - coming up here really soon. - And after every one, - they'll have a show with, Wil Wheaton, if - you know who he is. Yeah. He played - Wesley Crusher on Next Gen. Anyway, - he interviews - actors - from that - episode, and they talk about that episode.

39:46 - Right after the episode goes live, - that goes live. - And I, you know, I I don't think - it's a true podcast, but it's very podcast - style. - Yeah. And, Yeah. You know, and, you know, - so I always end up watching the after - show after the show. You know? - Right. - Yeah. I I remember I was gonna say, - oh, no. I've never listened or watched anything - on those platforms. But I was like, no. - I do remember, - when the most recent season of Peacekeeper came - out on HBO Max. - I just watched a random one, and I - was like, I'd rather listen to this. - I don't I don't really wanna watch a - couple, you know, a few people talk about - the show that I just watched. Mhmm. I'll - just listen to it.

40:32 - But I do, like, you know, - early days, like, when The Walking Dead was - at at, like, its height of popularity, - I was listening to, - you know, an unofficial - show about that. So, yeah, I didn't mean - to get us off into a huge topic. - Yeah. That's alright. That's It's it's I'm just - curious because I I was like, I don't - know that I've done that. And I guess - I am guilty of it. But Yeah. Yeah. - And that you know, that's kind of the - format we're going for here is a conversation - amongst us, not - just us preaching to you. And we're gonna - get other team members on here as well. - It's not gonna just be the three of - us. - The the goal is to, you know, whatever - particular - subject comes up for that episode, we're gonna, - you know, find the best people on our - team to to talk about. And and it'd - be nice for you guys to get to - know - the rest of the team here. You know, - it's not just the three of us, - here at Blueberry.

41:31 - And, of course, - be sure to check out Blueberry, - b l u b r r y. We - spelled it wrong because we can't afford these. - But, - any final words, - again? - We'll get this over with. - Hey. Well, hey. Thanks for - tuning in, - listening, and whatnot. - And, go check out podcastinsider.com. - We have blog posts over there. Usually, we - throw our videos over there that Dave's doing. - And - of course, we have a YouTube channel, Blueberry - Podcasting. - Just look for Blueberry spelled wrong. You'll find - us about everywhere.

42:14 - We'll catch you next time. Thanks, everyone.