How Long Should a Podcast Episode Be? And Should You Edit? – PCI 484

0:04 - Welcome to Podcast Insider. My name is Dave - Clements, and with me today are Mike, - Del, and Mackenzie Bennett. I'm I'm learning how - to host a show again, guys. - Yeah. It's a learning curve. Like I was - telling the lady on the phone earlier, there's - a bit of a learning curve to this. - So even if you - you you kinda step away for a bit - and then show back up again. - So - I think you're doing just fine. Yeah. Yeah. - All good. - We'll get it with the rotating thing. So, - today, we're gonna be talking about, a couple - different subjects that kinda go hand in hand, - which is should you edit and what is - the best episode length.

0:46 - This is something that comes up a lot - in communities, - because - I don't I don't understand why, but everybody - feels like there is this prime - length that your episode should be that's the - sweet spot - as well as how much editing you should - do. So that's what we're gonna talk today. - You get our opinions and, - talk about some blueberry services that may or - may not be tied in with this. - Yeah. Well, I got the short answer. Yes - and twenty minutes. - Okay. Hey. Nice. Thanks for listening. We'll catch - you next week. No. I That was great. - No. The the - as far as editing, you know, you don't - have to be heavy handed about it.

1:29 - You know, it all depends on, you know, - what you're going for. - You know, with my personal shows, I do - very little editing. - But - for a show that I edit for, I - don't do the show, but I edit for - them. I edit out a lot of stuff, - and - it just varies on, you know, your style. - So that one's completely - up to - you as the producer - of the show or the the host or, - you know, chief bottle washer, whatever. - You know, you make that decision, you know, - just know that heavy editing - takes lots of time. - I, - I would go with - I do prefer editing.

2:12 - And - what is my - preferred time for an episode? I don't know. - Twenty five, thirty minutes. - If the topic - is like, if the topic is really good, - you know, half hour. - If the topic and the host are good, - it could go longer. - If the host is not good at this, - the shorter, the better. The more editing, the - better. - It's gonna be a short episode because the - host, being me, is not very good at - this. - I'm kidding. I don't know that I have - a a hard and fast rule. - I think from a listening standpoint, - I love long shows - probably more than shorter shows, - because I can live with it a little - bit longer. From a production standpoint, - I also love to edit. When I have - the the time to actually dig in and - edit, I would happily spend eight hours, - editing something.

3:12 - The thing with the editing is, you know, - you can go as heavy or as light - as you want. - And, you know, there's no - real wrong answer. But, you know, if you're - stuttering and stammering - and and, you know, have weird gaps and - say something goofy and wanna get rid of - it and all that, you know, or say - you have a cold and you cough every - so often, you might wanna edit those out, - that kind of thing. As far as the - length of a show, my standard advice is - talk as long as - you have content for. - If you've got - fifteen minutes worth of something to say about - a subject, don't stretch it to thirty minutes. - You know? In my case, you know, I - like longer shows as well, but I don't - listen to them all at once. I listen - you know, I I listen in the car - mostly. And so every time I jump in - the car, it'll take off wherever I left - off, and it might take me a whole - day or two - to listen to something.

4:07 - However long your content - stays interesting and doesn't sound like you're trying - to stretch the topic, - is is probably a good length. - Yeah. That question was easier to answer in - not necessarily the case of what's best for - the show, but what is - best - for your listeners. And, - it's kinda come back, but a lot of - that was just - how people were driving to work every day. - And now Yeah. A ton of people don't - do that, including all three people right here. - Yeah. Right. Right. You know, back back in - the day, the standard answer was either twenty - minutes or forty minutes. And the reason for - that was the average commute - was a twenty minute commute.

4:50 - I think it just goes back to the - content. You know? Don't try to stretch it - just because somebody tells you thirty minutes is - the sweet spot. - You only got twenty minutes of things to - say. Only say twenty minutes worth of things - and then edit the thing and - send it. - Yeah. I mean, the the answer I've always - given - in forums and things like that is and - it's a little bit smug and a little - bit tongue in cheek, but it's as long - as it needs to be. Podcasting is so - diverse, and I talk about all the time. - I've done a bunch of different kind of - shows. - The the length of those episodes are going - to - vary depending on - what that show is about.

5:32 - Some shows, - people expect to be longer. Like, audio dramas, - they're expecting - longer episodes - so they get a little bit more bang - for their buck. They're also expecting those to - be very highly edited, very, you know, detailed, - and have some, - sound effects and engineering and stuff like that - behind it. Whereas, - show like Hours, you know, we try not - to push it past thirty minutes. But if - it doesn't need to be thirty minutes, - we've all kind of agreed. - We're not gonna push it. - But I think I think a practical thing - is rather than - worrying about what everybody else is doing, what - does your audience want from your show?

6:13 - And sometimes, I feel like podcasters don't ask - their audience. They just wanna know what is - the group consensus, - from other podcasters. Well, how long is your - show, Mike? How long is your show, Mackenzie? - Rather than going, - my audience prefers the shorter episodes or the - longer episodes. So - for instance, - like, I listen to, - I've forgotten what it is because I don't - listen to it that often because it's so - long. But the the podcast index show, - I - I cannot listen to a full episode. - It's just too long - for my attention span. - Yeah. - That's a that's that's an acquired taste.

6:53 - But if they ask me, I would be - like, either give me shorter episodes or just - give me more - short episodes. - And they probably use chapters and things like - that, so I could skip through. But I - don't like doing that because you're usually doing - something else when you listen to a podcast. - People have gotten really used to using the - two times speed when watching videos. - Like, that is very, very prevalent on - videos on Instagram and TikTok. - I have a feeling people listening to podcasts - are probably trying to do the same thing. - Yeah. - Yeah. I think I even listen to audiobooks - at one and a half to two times - speed. - And some podcasts, yes, - I listen to it two times. Yeah. Yeah.

7:35 - See, I I I'll take a contrary opinion - to that. I I think that should be - banned. - For podcasts? - For everything. And and and take TikTok - is funny because - TikTok already is short attention span video. - You're you're really that short attention span. You - need to speed it up. I mean, gosh. - Oh my god. Everyone uses it. Yeah. - It's it's on basically - every video platform at this point, I feel - like. Oh, yeah. It's and it's also most - podcast apps, and that's that's cool if you - wanna use it. And it just I I - think it's I think it's mentally damaging - to be honest with you. Probably, like scientifically, - it's probably not great. But Yeah. I think - for me and this comes from a person - who knows that he rambles - and cannot get to a point quickly enough.

8:25 - But that's typically when I'm, like, hitting - the fast forward button. Mhmm. Because I I - still wanna hear what you have to say, - but I wanna know when you get to - the point that I care about, which is - why when I edit, I I try to - get us, like, what is the point of - the episode? Obviously, us talking to each other - and getting opinions is the point of this - show. But there are other shows where I'm - like, nope. There was too much fluff, - and I I cut that out. So the - my thing is, like, I tend to - not watch or, like, not listen to - a ton of indie podcasts. I will watch - one that is, quote, unquote, like, produced. Mhmm. - And you're probably not gonna have to worry - about listening to something on one and a - half to two and a half speed - if it is - properly produced.

9:11 - Because if the host of the show wasn't - speaking fast enough, they're gonna tell them to - do it over. - And the problem with, you know, people taking - their time and rambling is because - they aren't doing this for someone. They're doing - it for themselves. And they're, yeah, they're doing - it for their audience, but they don't have - someone with certain standards - keeping them up to date on, like, making - sure that they're hitting those marks. That's why - producers exist. That's true. I've figured that out - with recent things that I've done that yeah. - If if you mess this thing up, let's - let's take it again just so - it's easier to edit in Yeah. To that - space, - which sounds very I don't wanna say dishonest.

9:53 - No. It's produced, and there's nothing wrong with - the produced show. You know, that's us. That - is one genre of podcasting is highly produced - audio or video, and, you know, that's fine. - There's nothing wrong with that. There's also a - lot of just off the cuff real people - doing - indie stuff that doesn't appeal to everybody - and doesn't require nearly as much production. - You know? There and there's nothing wrong with - either one of them. - It's just all what you want to put - out - and what your audience will enjoy. You know, - like, people know that when they tune into - my personal show, it's gonna be me rambling - about something and not gonna be highly produced.

10:36 - So how do you think you know what - your audience wants? Like, how do you figure - that out? If I do something really stupid, - they tell me. - You know, ask for feedback. - You know? But you have to ask in - the show. You know? Don't - you know? A lot of times, we get - these questions where, you know, how do I - know anything about my audience? I know, you - know, blah blah blah. Do you ask? - You know? Ask them. And and it's an - audio platform. Don't ask them in the blog - post. Ask them on the audio or the - video. Say, hey. I need to know. What - do you think? What do we need to - do? - You know, something like that. It amazes me - sometimes that, you know, people want to get - feedback, but yet they don't ask for it.

11:17 - I think for me personally - with a show, if if I'm the one - making it, I usually have a friend or - family member or someone close enough to me - that I know listens to it, - and I can ask feedback that way. And - there are times that I do you know, - I have done, like, a, hey. Fill out - this survey, which a very small percentage - of the audience will typically do. But that's - that's usually how I've done it in the - past. And sometimes, like, I will even go - back and be like, okay. I need to - listen to this again with a set of - fresh ears. - And, okay, - this could have been edited better. - This could have been longer. This could have - been shorter.

11:59 - And I tried to take an objective approach - in that case, but it's not perfect every - time. You know, it's never gonna be perfect - every time. - But that's just - that's just life, and that's especially - content. - Yeah. Well, like I said, if you're going - for perfect, - your your editing is gonna take a whole - lot longer. - Oh, yeah. And, you know or you're gonna - spend a lot of money on, on a - producer and an editor and, you know, you - know, you pick your battles. You know, what - is important to you? What is important to - your audience as far as editing and and - length and, you know, everything else we're talking - about? Again, there in podcasting, the nice thing - about it is there's no rules.

12:41 - Mhmm. There's some best practices, and that's what - kinda we try to hit here, but there's - no wrong answer to how long an episode - should be. There's no wrong answer to whether - I should edit heavy or not. - You should always cut the ends off, though, - if you have a big blank space in - your file or something. I mean, obviously. Yeah. - Or, you know, the phone rings in the - middle of the episode. That's probably not compelling - content. - But - speaking of which, I just mute muted my - phone. - You know, I personally - think, you know, whatever feels right to you - and, you know, and if you want feedback, - ask for it. Mhmm. And - I think you're covered. But, also, you know, - here's another thing I know that, you know, - it's kinda off topic a little bit, but - another thing I find is to say somebody - emails me about my show and nobody else - does. I tend to think, well, I wonder - if they all think that way. And, you - know, and then if I act upon something, - is it just because that one person?

13:37 - And then did that go against what somebody - else might do with it? So be careful - with that too. You know? If you've got - a a real active listener that's, giving you - a feedback, - you know, don't always take their word for - gospel. You know? Kinda weigh it against anything - else you've you've found out. When you are - a solo creator, - it's harder to get feedback, I think. - So you kinda have to go with - what you're listening to. And, like, if if - you're listening to something that's similar to your - content, - then, - you know, you kind of mirror you start - to mirror that style a little bit, typically. - But you kinda have to trust your gut - until somebody tells you otherwise. It's kind of - why I - like working with a team of people.

14:22 - I know, like, the three of us, like, - we don't do a ton of talking about - Podcast Insider. But I know if something was, - like, egregiously - wrong with an edit or something else, we - would talk about it. That was Oh, yeah. - My favorite thing about the last show I - did. I had a really big team of - people that not only worked on it, but - they listened to every episode. So if there - was something, it was like, oh, hey. You - accidentally - left this one part in. Can you go - in there and fix it? That was easy - to do. Or, wow. That episode was almost - two hour two hours long. Is there any - way we could trim it down? Because nobody's - gonna listen to that whole thing. Because we - typically knew our audience from, like, Discord and - things like that. So I prefer Teams, but - I know that that is not always an - option, especially when, you know, people need to - be paid for their time.

15:16 - So what would you guys like, what is - your favorite audio editing software now? But also, - I feel like AI is changing all editing - and media production nowadays. So, like, what do - we do about that? - Yeah. - Favorite, - I really love Adobe Audition. - But to save my wallet, I've actually started - using Reaper over the last couple of years. - It takes a little bit of getting used - to, but I like to do the manually - manual editing - rather than give it to AI. I I - don't even - know of an audio editing - AI service.

15:56 - So maybe I'll have to play with that - for a future episode, - and and see how - see how that works. But I love I - love the tinkering part of editing. So I - will always use some kind of, like, - you know, DAW rather than a service that - will do it for me. - Yeah. I I mostly edit in Adobe Audition, - but I've also done it in Audacity, - which is - surprisingly similar and free. You know, - audition has some filtering and stuff that you - can do. You know, like, you can if - you didn't have a noise gate on your - on your mic and there's some sort of - low level home, it's really good at taking - that out and, you know, that kind of - thing. But there's there's a lot of good - ones out there. And then the AI assisted - ones like Descript and oh, I can't think - of it off the top of my head.

16:46 - It's another really popular one. I believe that - has some AI assistance as well. I think - Adobe probably does too. I just ignore it. - Mhmm. Yeah. I I have over the last - few episodes, I have been running the audio - through Adobe Podcasts. - And that's been nice because, - you know, level I think maybe that's one - of the hardest parts of editing. You you - may have - the - audio coming in okay. - But, yeah, leveling, normalizing, - there's there's, like, weird little components - that - are sometimes just hard to get right. - And, - yeah, I like to use that, like, on - the raw tracks before I start to edit - and then - listen back to it. And then sometimes, I'll - run it through - Auphonic, which Blueberry has. We have media remastering - by Auphonic, - that you can - run your your podcast episodes through. So it'll - balance everything out and get you to the - right LUFS and all of that. Yeah. That's - my process is I take the WAV file.

17:49 - That's what I usually record in. Mhmm. And - I'll take that WAV file. - I'll put it in - Adobe Audition, - save it as an m p three at - that point, - and then run it through - their version of, phonic leveling type thing. - And then I edit, you know, like, edit - out the ohms and ahs and coughs and - snorts and phone ringings and whatever else, - and then cut the ends. And then - just save it out as the m p - three, and I'm ready to go. You know? - It doesn't take ridiculously long, - and it does everything all in one place. - But, also, you can, you know, edit the - whole thing, get it in it as an - m p three or a wave in our - case, and you upload that to Blueberry with - our media mastering, - and it'll run it through Auphonic and level - it out for you. And, it does a - really good job.

18:41 - I would say the easiest editing is when - the recording went perfectly. - Yes. That is, you know, garbage in there. - Been there. Hey. Start - start with a good audio track. You'll end - with a good audio track. I mean, there's - certain things you can't fix in audio. - The phrase, trash in, trash out? - Yep. Does anybody have any final thoughts before - we shut this down? Is this isn't like - a big - you know, it doesn't have to be deep. - It's pretty simple. - Just do what - you wanna do and do what your audience - will listen to, and you'll figure it out - as you go. It's it doesn't have to - be perfect on day one.

19:21 - No. Yeah. It's it's all a learning curve, - and, so is editing. You know, recording your - episode is a learning curve, getting comfortable doing - that, but so is editing. That is - not, - that is not something that comes easily to - some people. So give yourself some grace. - You'll figure it out. - The thing is, if you chase after perfection, - you're you're never gonna execute - what you're doing. So I tell people all - the time, your first step was episode might - suck, - but your second episode will suck less and - so on. So, you know Yep. Go with - the flow, do what you need to do, - and, I still go stand by my first - answer. Yes. You should edit, and it should - be twenty minutes.

20:06 - Just kidding. - About the twenty minutes. - Alright. - Well, I I think that's that's - it for today. So, - thank you guys for listening. - And, - I was gonna do the whole YouTube. Hey. - Like and subscribe, but that's not how podcasting - works. I'm in video mode. I'm sorry. - Follow or subscribe, whatever your app says. And - always go to podcastinsider.com - for the latest - and greatest. We have lots of blog posts - over there too. - So and, oh, yeah. One other thing, I - guess, we'll minute we'll mention some some, - some things going on - currently. - By the time you listen to this, - Apple HLS - video will be available to all of our - customers. So if you did wanna adventure into - video, we have - the accommodations for that coming - by the time you hear this.

21:01 - And, - yeah. So that's, you know, just a little - side note there. Maybe we'll do - an episode about, - you know, how video is distributed versus how - audio is distributed. That'd be a - good good geeky one to to do at - some point. - Yeah. For sure. - Alright. Catch you catch you next time. - Thanks for listening.