How Much AI Is Too Much AI in Podcasting?

0:04 - Welcome to Podcast Insider. - We're back with another great episode. - We're gonna wing it. - I'm Mike Dell, the VP of - operations here at Blueberry. - And, with me, I have Dave Clements - Hey. Hey. - And, - Mackenzie Bennett. - Hello. - Yeah. And today, we're gonna talk about - how much - AI is too much AI in podcasting - with the caveat, there really isn't any rules - in podcasting. So we're gonna talk about our - opinions - and maybe best practices. - Dave, I I'll give you the first shot - here. What what's your opinion on how much - AI to use or not use?

0:52 - Is this the part where we just, like, - end the episode real quick because I just - upset everybody? - Don't use it. - Yeah. So for a long time, - well, I guess when when AI became more - accessible, - I guess, commercially, - I I thought it was the coolest stuff - ever. - And - I could never figure out how I was - gonna use it for - any of my shows, - other than just goofing off. - And - then - we released Pie, - a few years ago, and that is our - podcast AI assistant - that is still available to everybody.

1:32 - That kinda got me thinking about - the way I personally would use - AI. And so I've kind of gotten to - the point where - I prefer to use - AI tools - in, - like, a post production sense. - I like to have AI - look through the transcript, - and I will take that transcript because I - will forget what I've said 90% of the - time. And I go, okay. Summarize this - for me. - And then sometimes I use just that raw - summary and throw it in my show notes. - Or sometimes, like, I will clean it up - so depending on the the show that I'm - doing, it feels like the show. It doesn't - just feel like, you know, a computer wrote - it.

2:17 - But then one of my favorite things that - I've discovered recently - going back - and actually reworking - older episodes of a show is chapters. - Sometimes, - Py doesn't get the chapters right. - And something like ChatGPT - or specifically Claude will actually be able to - go through your transcript and finds much better - chapters - than I've run into before. And so with - the D and D podcast, I talk about - all the time. Those are, like, hour plus - episodes. - And I honestly don't wanna go back and - try and find all of those little chapter - markers myself.

2:57 - So that those are kind of the the - two big ways that I use it. And - then the other thing that I I have - been doing as of late is - using, like, media mastering tools. I've been using - the ones that we have with Auphonic. - And I've also been dabbling with - Adobe Podcasts. They have, like, an enhancement tool. - And those are really nice because - sometimes I don't have the time to - really get in there and nitpick - some of, like, the - the loudness and normalization - and some of those editing things. - So that's typically - for me personally, - that's where I'm going to use - AI tools.

3:38 - I am not a fan of using it - for, like, artwork and things like - that, because I have a design background. So - that's my story. Yeah. We use it a - little bit on this show. Mackenzie, you're, you're - the main - user and abuser here. So - what do you think about it? - I use Py. Yeah. So I use the - AI tools that we have available for Blueberry - whenever I publish this. - I will use it for the artwork, - the chapters, - the title some of the time, - and - the transcript. - I will use all of that, - like, every single time I post the episode.

4:19 - The show notes itself is a combination of - AI and me. That is - I upload the transcript - into AI. - Typically, I have it write up something, and - then I'll just go in and and tweak - it. And I think part of the reason - I do that is because - right - now, we've been, like, we've been posting episodes, - like, that we recorded - weeks to a month ahead of time, and - I'm like, I don't remember what exactly happened - here. - Yeah. - I don't remember the specifics at the by - the time we're getting around to publishing it. - So - I'll use that to help me, and then - I'll just, you know, go in and and - tweak it however I see fit. But also - at the same time, it knows my writing - style pretty well, - by now. So it that is something that - AI can do is learn your your own - tone and style and and whatnot and and - give you responses - in that manner. But, specifically, - like, something else I was also thinking about - is - we've had - tools for decades now that are being - called AI, - And - we're in this I don't know. I feel - like we're in this weird - weird limbo of, like, - people that are using Photoshop - and Canva - and uploading things to social media or, you - know, Meta, - TikTok, whatever, - and it's being labeled as AI. And it's - like, no. That's - that's Photoshop.

5:49 - That's something that is, - yes, - was used with a tool, - but also - you have to be, you know, somewhat skilled - in those plat like, in that software - to do that. Like, it's it's getting to - the point where - these companies are labeling - images as AI, and then they don't get - sent out to audiences properly, and it's really - affecting some people when it's you know? Mhmm. - These automated things are showing up saying this - is AI when it's like, I changed the - color of an image in Canva. - That's that's not great. So it's I I - feel for the graphic designers right now. They - are going through a lot. Anyone in social - and marketing, it is it's a weird time - because For sure. Some of this is, you - know, things that we've been doing for years - and years and years, and now it's just - an automated - slap on the wrist or, like, - label that is incorrect. Like, don't punish me - for using - a tool.

6:50 - Like, if you use, like, the blemish tool - on Instagram, it's, like, saying that's AI. Like, - that's been around for ten years. Mhmm. Like, - I get that it's technically - AI, but - it's - I don't have the words for it right - now. I just have the emotion. Yeah. It's - like - there are good uses of AI, and then - there are - less good uses of AI, and then there - are bad uses of AI. I you know, - the way I the way I look at - it is, you know, I've got mixed feelings - about it. It's just like you guys. - You know, there's certain uses that I use, - and but I'm also - a little picky about writing. Mhmm. And not - that I'm a particularly good writer or anything, - but, what I'll generally do when I'm, say, - writing show notes, - I'll throw the transcript in and say, hey.

7:41 - You know, write up, you know, summary of - this. And then - I'll go in and reedit what the output - was to make it sound like something that - I would write. - I do like the artwork, - thing, and I'm and I'm a graphic art - guy too. You know? I I worked in - graphics for eighteen years. I wasn't particularly great - at it, but I could make what the - designer wanted - and make it work, you know, in the - real world. That was my skill. It wasn't - really coming up with the design itself. But, - you know, I'll use like, I just updated - my personal show's artwork, - and - and I had a cartoon image in there. - And, I thought, well, you know, let's replace - the cartoon with that. Well, rather than me - spending - an hour in Photoshop, I threw it in - the AI and said, hey. Replace the cartoon - dude with this picture, and it did a - really good job. So, - you know, that's - so using those kind of tools, I don't - see as a bad thing. You know, the - what people out there call AI slop - is where the, you know, like - I'm not calling out Inception Point. Well, yes.

8:48 - I am. You are now. Inception Point AI, - you know, and they've chain they've rebranded - because that became a bad word, apparently. So - they've rebranded to something else. I don't know - what it's called, but that is a 100% - AI produced podcast. It's got AI characters, AI - written. - You know, there's very little human interaction. - And, you know, if people listen to it, - great. - But, - you know, it it sounds very - AI Mhmm. - For lack of a better way of putting - it. You know, some things - do work really well. And, you know, and - if it gets the right information out and - all that, you know, who are we to - say don't do that? But like I said, - I I I find good uses of it.

9:34 - The thing is is, you know, check the - output. Don't just cut, paste, publish, you know, - when it comes to, - you know, anything written. You know? And I've - experimented too. I I actually had, - Eleven Labs. I had Eleven Labs clone my - voice from a whole bunch of podcast episodes. - And I produced one episode that was my - AI doppelganger, - and you could just tell, yeah, it sounded - like me, - but there was no - human behind it. I mean, it was - it was very flat. No feeling. No nothing - like that. It and it is getting really - good. I have to say, you know, pretty - soon, we will not be able to tell - the difference.

10:15 - But, as of right now, I don't I - don't think it's ready for prime time. No. - And - I I can't ever see myself getting to - a point where I accept - content like that as a consumer or as - a creator. - That that's a it's kind of a discussion - that we have internally as a company. - I think we keep reiterating over and over - again. Like, the human voice - is - important - to podcasting. It's what makes podcasting - what it is. - And - I don't know. I just I can't - I can't wrap my head around - making things like that. - And I personally and, you know, come at - me. I don't care. I'm gonna use making - in quotes, - in that context because it's just frustrating, - as somebody who has, like, everything that I - know about podcasting and a large - amount of what I know about - design.

11:14 - And those are two huge things that are - affecting, - you know, my world, as far as AI - goes. - I have spent so much time learning - everything that I know myself. Like, I am - self taught. My my role here at Blueberry, - largely self taught, and I have learned so - much, - over the years. And then I see, you - know, people that wanna create - whole podcast networks that are built on a - 100% AI or like 95% - AI or whatever. And I don't know. I - just I can't wrap my head around it. - It's not I don't think for me, I - don't think it's a, oh, I'm elite because - I'm a human and I can do this - stuff.

11:54 - I just think that - the output is so much more rewarding for - you as a creator - and for your audience - if it hurts a little. - Maybe that's not the way to say it, - but that's how I'm gonna say it. Yeah. - No. I get it. The thing is is, - you know, creative people - wanna be creative. You enjoy the process - of creating something rather than, oh, I gotta - create this, hit a button that's created. Well, - there's no new ideas with AI. Right. And - that's that's a big part of creativity - is, yeah, you're gonna have your influences and - things that you've already seen, but - there is no - comparing - something from AI and something from - someone's brain that has been conjuring this for, - you know, decades. I don't know. There's also, - like, the privacy part of AI, - in podcasting. Like, Mike, the idea of someone, - like, cloning my voice drives me up the - wall. Yeah. Yeah.

12:55 - That's one of the reasons why I don't - wanna do video is because my voice is - already out there. I've been - I was a DJ in college, and I've - been doing a podcast since I for Blueberry - since I graduated from college. - My voice is out there. That's done for. - My face, - not so much. I feel like, Dave, you - were very nice about it, but, like, there's - there's a level of, - just Creepiness. - Yeah. It's creepy. It's not good, and, - it just feels - dystopian. Yeah. Well, the you know, here's the - thing. Just just remember, you cannot - now you know, used to be in the - age of just Photoshop. You couldn't trust a - picture.

13:42 - Eyeballs - in person. - Yeah. And then maybe not. Yeah. It takes - a lot more critical thinking skills to Yeah. - Do a lot of stuff - lately. I mean, some of it is just - blatantly, like, - horrible, like, - oh, wow. I can I can clearly tell - that that's AI? Grandma, on the other hand, - may not. - Maybe my dad probably wouldn't. But, you know, - being in in a in a tech based - industry, - I I would say, you know, the three - of us, like, we can we see a - lot of that stuff - through our work, but also - probably in our our free time when we're - doom scrolling. And I don't know. I've become - very sensitive to it, - even to the point where when - working on scripts - for YouTube videos that that I'm doing, I'm - having AI do a lot of research, and - I'm like, you know, you have to give - like, cite all of your sources.

14:37 - And then, like, it takes me a little - bit longer to write those scripts, - just because I do have to verify - is the AI actually giving me - good information to go off of? Because, - yeah, I I have a pretty tight turnaround - on on things, and I know that there - are podcasts that do this. Like but I - don't have time to go through and - do a bunch of research for a six - minute video. - That's a lot of work. And so I - do trust that a little bit, but then - there's always double checking. And, - Yeah. This - I don't know. This seems off or I - don't know. Like like you said, you you - can't you can't trust it immediately. You have - to you have to be very sensitive to - it. And and here's the other problem is - as more and more - AI content gets out there, more and more - of that AI generated content is gonna be - feeding the models.

15:35 - So even the wrong stuff, - if you go verify it's you know, how - would you verify something? You go, you know, - go to a news website and look look - for articles or whatever about whatever it is, - and chances are that was written by a. - Mhmm. - So, you know, it's gonna just get worse, - I think, - you know, because now now you've got the - AI feeding itself, - and at some point, the bubble's gonna burst. - But, you know, getting back to the topic - of how much of it do you wanna - use in your podcast, you know, whatever feels - right to use, - I guess, okay. But, you know, your audience - is gonna pick out the, obviously, AI generated - stuff Yeah. At least for now. Like I - said, it's gonna get better, - better or worse, I guess, at the same - time.

16:24 - You know, I have no problem using it - for what it's good at. - And right now, what it's good at is, - you know, making sure I'm capitalizing - where I need to and putting the punctuation - in the right spot and, you know, all - the stuff I'm not particularly good at. - And, - you know, that kind of stuff and, you - know, and editing a photo. Now I can - edit a photo in Photoshop. - I I still have that skill, - but I'm not gonna do as good a - job. I don't wanna create the photo from - AI, but I want, you know, if I - wanna edit a photo, I have no problem - letting it do it. Haven't got to the - point where I wanted to edit my audio - or video. - I kinda like to do that myself when - I edit. Yeah. Again, you know, they'll get - better. Yeah. I I think that they're just, - I don't know, it's such a fine - line that you have to walk, - not not even from a professional standpoint. Like, - I am, you know while this is my - opinion, I am technically speaking on behalf of - the company, - in a way. But it's just a very - fine line that you have to walk because - there are legitimately - some tools that are, quote, unquote, AI, like - McKinsey said, - that we've been using - because they are a better - tool than what we have - had access to. Or, you know, I I - think Photoshop is always a big one, but - you from an audio - standpoint because I haven't really found any, - AI video tools other than, like, clipping tools - that are kind of worth the time.

17:56 - So you can, you know, send those over - to me. But from an audio standpoint, - they're like, sometimes my ears can't pick up - on the tiny little frequencies and - and gunk. Like, sometimes I will have a - fan running in the background, and - I can't get that out of there. I - can run it through the Adobe podcast tool, - sometimes media mastering, - and it'll figure out what that frequency is - and pull it straight out, and you'd never - know. - So - that is totally worth it to me, but - it's also not creating anything for me. It's - just helping me do my job better. I - think there's, - that part where you have to - have the right intentions behind using AI.

18:40 - Enhancing something, making it better - instead of cutting corners - is probably the most important part. Yeah. Like - I say, you know, sometimes they're - you know, you can see where people just - cut and paste something out and don't really - look at it. So, you know, just be - careful with that. Yeah. I mean, ultimately, your - audience is gonna decide whether or not they're - going to continue to be fans of what - you're making. Yep. We see a big thing - right now where, - you know, AI generated menus. - Those are some of the most horrific nightmare - fuel things I have ever seen. And there - are people that are just like, you know - what? And I will just say, you know, - not everybody's a great photographer. I am definitely - not. But I still don't know that I - want my my food to look like some - of these AI posters.

19:30 - But there are people who are just like, - well, if you're gonna cut corners on - this, - are you cutting corners on your food? Like, - the it introduces - doubt. That's exactly what I think. It introduces - doubt. And for me, as a as a - creative person, - who wants to learn - to do the hard things, - even if I'm not good at them, I - just don't wanna introduce doubt by throwing a - bunch of AI at whatever it is I'm - making. - I would rather - people go, hey, you know, you goofed up - on this edit or, - you know, you really don't draw that well. - And I'm like, okay. Yeah. But I'm learning - and I can fix it and - and whatever.

20:12 - But, again, that's me. I just don't wanna - introduce doubt. I want people to trust what - I'm putting out there. I'd rather - the bad real version than the overly perfected - robot - version. I don't wanna live in a world - of robots as as - so many people do, - apparently, in charge of all this. - I don't. - I really don't want everything to be done - by robots. You on the anti, - dog robot thing? Did they freak you out? - Because they do my wife. - I I don't even know if I've really - thought about the dog robot thing, but, like, - I want AI to be used to help - solve real problems.

20:54 - You know what's not a real problem? Having - a dog. - Yeah. That that's true. But here's what's gonna - happen, is if you're using too much AI - in your podcast, - your listeners, - viewers, - however you wanna put it, eventually are going - to notice - that. - They may or may not like it, but - I think the market is going to prove - over time that the AI generated stuff is - not what people want as much as - a human. Mhmm. Not saying that, you know, - that there's not a place for the AI - stuff. - We have one of our clients - that - writes a lot of articles - for automotive.

21:36 - And what they're doing with the AI and - in podcasting - is they're, first off, labeling it right off - the top. Say, this is a an article - from this - read by the AI, - and we're putting it out in audio form - so you don't have to sit there and - read it. But that's what they're using it - for, and that makes sense. They're not trying - to pass it off as these are real, - you know, real people talking about these things. - No. They're reading articles. That's an awesome use - of it in podcasting, I think. Yeah. And, - I mean, one thing we haven't touched on, - and I I think it's - it's a lot more complicated than - I I so I can't really, like, fully - speak to it. But you do have, like, - the environmental impact of all of these data - centers and and stuff like that. I live - in Indiana, and, you know, Gary, Indiana was - out of power for, - I think about two weeks, if I'm not - mistaken almost. But the data center that's not - too terribly far from - Gary - was working just fine. So it's just, like, - it's a little scary, - you know. And and that's not to get - into, like, politics or anything like that, but - it is a real world thing that you - have to consider, - especially if we're all using - AI tools, - especially for silly things. You know. I'm tired - of seeing - AI generated memes. You know? So but, yeah, - podcasting, I prefer it to to be - a little bit of a helper. I don't - need it to create any of my shows.

23:03 - That's kinda my final word on that. Oh, - this episode, when you're listening to it and - when we put it out, International - Podcast Day - is, - September 30. - I believe this will be going out on - that Monday. So a couple days from now - is International Podcast Day, - and I just wanted to touch on, you - know, some of the history of that. - Dave, what or Mackenzie, one of you, - what do you know about how that all - started? Oh, we're, what, fifteen - sixteen, 17? - How many years? I'm gonna guess, and I - don't know, but I'm gonna guess it's been - at least fifteen.

23:44 - Yeah. I would say it's been fifteen years, - that they've had - International Podcast Day. But I think the first - year was called National Podcast Day, and then - the rest of the world didn't didn't agree, - so they changed it. Right. 2014 - was National Podcast Day. - Okay. Okay. Close. - I was just gonna say it was some - sometime right after I started podcasting. - Steve and - Dave Lee - were, - as far as I know, the the masterminds - behind this. Yep. No. Steve created it and - with with his son, Dave. And just as - a way to acknowledge - all of the work that goes into podcasting, - the way that it has changed, - all of the content that people are consuming - on a day to day basis, - just whatever we have done with it, whether - it is the advancements - in - on the tech side of it, - the the ways that it has helped people - get their voices out there for whatever it - is that they wanna talk about, - kinda leveling the playing field a little bit - for some stuff or, - just, you know, trying to meet other podcasters.

24:54 - But it's I don't think they've done - a live show for it in a number - of years now. I think, '21 or '22 - was maybe the last year for that, but - it's it's a good day to just kinda - consider, like, how far we've come. Yeah. And, - you know, when they were doing those live - streams, they were, you know, doing thirty hours, - you know, a thirty hour live stream, and - it it was quite the production. - But there are a lot of, - lot of places - and people and, - you know, all around the world now that - are doing a special livestream that day, you - know, from, you know, their individual - things. So, if we can come up with - a list of events we can find, we'll - throw that in the show notes - over at podcastinsider.com.

25:43 - You know, we we used to participate in - that. Mhmm. We'd always have an hour of - of that thirty hour stream where Blueberry, - you know, usually Todd or Mackenzie or I - or all of us, - would Yeah. You know, do something for - International Podcast Day. But there are smaller little - events going on. And and to prove the - point, it's in, it's in the National Day - calendar. So, of course, it's real and official. - Yeah. - So if you wanna know more about International - Podcast Day, you can just go to internationalpodcastday.com. - We'll make sure that we link it in - the episode show notes as well. - Yeah. So, anything to, wrap up either of - the topics?

26:24 - I don't think so. I I hope I - I don't get nasty letters. Yeah. Okay. I'll - take them. It's fine. Yeah. I I actually - enjoyed getting feedback. - You know? Hey. It's better than none. Some - some of the some of the best con - conversations I've ever had was somebody that started - out complaining at me. - Yeah. So and if you have said negative - or positive comments, - of course, you can always reach us - at mike@blueberry.com, - dave@blueberry.com, - or mackenzie@blueberry.com, - spelled the weird way we spell it with - no e's. Guess that's a podcast. That does - it. Thanks, everyone. Catch you next time.