0:00 Welcome back to Podcast Insider. I'm Mike Dell, the VP of customer relations here at Blueberry. And I'm Dave Clements from the support and media team. Today, we're gonna be talking about podcast monetization because because that is something that is always up for discussion no matter who you talk to, and there's a lot of misinformation surrounding it. Yeah. There are a ton there there is a ton of myths floating around about how podcasters make money, you know, kinda like you need to have a huge download stat or the sponsorship's the only way. But if you're not making money fast, you're doing something wrong, you know, stuff like that.

0:41 Yeah. And today, we're gonna break down what exactly works for independent podcasters based on what we see every day in the space, and how to approach them in a way that makes sense for your show. You're listening to Podcast Insider hosted by Mike Dell, Dave Clements, and Mackenzie Bennett from the Blueberry team, bringing you weekly insights, advice, and insider tips and tricks to help you start, grow, and thrive through podcasting with all the support of your team here at Blueberry Podcasting. Welcome. Let's dive in. We'll start out with the myth number one here. You need huge downloads to make money, and that's not always the case.

1:26 Yeah. It was kind of, like, when when when I first got into podcasting, that is the thing that was, like, never going to be achievable to me. It was like, you need to have, you know, hundreds of thousands of downloads in order to make money from it. And, that's actually changed quite a bit. And, you know, we'll talk a little bit about, programmatic advertising because that's kind of a good way to get started now in in making money with your podcast, because you can put ads in front of your episodes, and you can do that from day one.

2:10 And, sure, you may not make a ton of money if you don't have a ton of downloads, but there can be some revenue there. Oh, yeah. For sure. And and, you know, basically, you know, it depends on your audience. It depends on how focused they are. And, again, this is, you know, just talking about advertising. There's other ways of making money that we'll talk about. But, you know, like, I know of a particular aviation podcast. They do not take ads. They do not do anything of that sort. But what they do do is they have a value for value model, which, you know, it's like Patreon or I think they use Simplecast or not Simplecast. I forget what it's called, but it's a competitor to Patreon.

3:01 And people support them because they like the content, and they like the content without the advertising. But, you know, as as, is written in our notes here, a focused audience of 500 loyal listeners can be more valuable than 5,000 passive ones. You know, kinda what works is, you know, being in a niche that, you know, you're one of few that are are doing the type of content that you're doing, you know, audience that trusts you. And, you know, it just you gotta build the audience, and it doesn't have to be huge. You just have to build it in such a way that they trust you or they wanna support you or you know, there's lots of different ways of doing it.

3:53 Yeah. Yeah. I guess, you know, we could move on to our second myth, which is that sponsorships are the only way to monetize. We've already talked about two of them. Yeah. Exactly. And, you know, I think a lot of what we see in podcasting, just because of the way that content is consumed, I think a lot of us kind of get the idea, about sponsorships through, YouTube, honestly. You know, we we I know Mike and I watch a fair amount of YouTube between the two of us. My main television. Yeah. And we're always seeing, you know, like, in video ads by those creators that are like, you know, this episode is sponsored by so and so. Here's the ad for it.

4:40 And so I think that we kind of bring that into what we assume monetization is within podcasts. But, you you could do sponsorships where you actually work with a company directly. You can also do programmatic advertising, which is not sponsorship led. But, again, more ads for someone else's product. But one of my favorite ones is that value for value or listener supported model. So you could do memberships, donations, premium content like Patreon. That's actually how, we did the D and D podcast I was doing.

5:27 We we started a Patreon where we gave unedited, sessions. So it'd be, you know, these two, three, four hour long audio files, and people loved them. So, you know, we started that at, like, a dollar. And then we would upgrade and do some other perks for, like, 5 or $10. And that you know, our diehard fans, they enjoyed it. And it was actually pretty successful, you know, by our measurement. Yeah. And some of these imagine listening to five hour. But, you know, people will Oh, yeah. Do things. You know? Well, think of you like Twitch. You know? A lot of the successful creators on Twitch are playing video games for hours.

6:09 Yeah. And then, hey. You know, there there's a there's generally you know, as as we used to say, there's a butt for every seat. Yeah. You know, somebody's gonna like it. Of course. And that that was a a big surprise to us because, you know, we were like, well, we already have the raw audio, and it gets assembled, you know, after we record. What if we gave that out? Would be would people be interested in that? So we gave that out at, like, $1. And, I was actually really surprised at how many people were like, yes. For a dollar a month, I would love to have these unedited, episodes where you got the goofs and you got to see some of the behind the scenes stuff. And people really, really like that.

6:53 Right. Yeah. A couple other ways listed, and there's other ones besides these as well. But, affiliate marketing, you know, I've I've seen that work really well for some, you know, some people. There's podcasts about podcasting, which was a big while back. I don't know if it's a big thing now. Yeah. Of course, we're doing one. Right? Right. Right. But, you know, we could say, hey. You know, buy this microphone and, you know, have an affiliate link to the microphone at b and h or something and, you know, maybe make a little money doing that. You know, that kind of affiliate marketing. You know, selling our own services, or selling your own services.

7:34 Now go ahead and talk about that one too. Sorry. No. I was gonna actually add on to the affiliate marketing just to kind of plug something that, as Blueberry customers, you may not be aware of. So we have a partnership with CodeADX, and that's what they do is, you can go through their platform and sign up for affiliate Mhmm. Codes and things like that for services that you use or or things like that. I just did that recently just as we were testing it out again, after talking to the guy that runs Code ADX, at Podfest. Yeah. So Yeah. That's a that you know, that's a pretty underutilized. We we are, working on reorganizing things so that you guys can find that stuff.

8:18 So but, yeah, that's, that's underutilized, and, we'll we'll try to market that a little better because that's a great way to do it. You know, if you've got 30 people listening to you every episode, but they're all really interested in a particular subject and you find a product that really fits that subject, you might do pretty good with that. You never know. But, you know, another one is selling your own services. You know, so if you're doing, you know, your coaching, consulting, speaking, in our case, selling podcast hosting, you know, promote your own stuff. That's another way of making money from a podcast.

9:05 Go ahead. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Something else that, we see people do, especially when they, you know, get into like, if you're a coach. I know Mike talked about selling your own services. And even if it's not those one on one things, you could do, like, paid courses or digital products like PDFs. Some of those are pretty low weight. Yeah. So they're, like, they're easy lifts. You know, you can have those things and, you know, either it's like, hey. For a dollar, you can download PDF or you can give it away for free, and that ties into something else.

9:46 So that's something to consider. And then finally, events and community access. If you are again, I think this ties more into coaching, but there are there are creators who will do live shows because their shows are bigger. And, they'll they'll have, like, a you know, maybe it's at Gen Con or at Podfest or something like that. They'll have, like, some kind of, like, paid event that you can go to, hang out with that podcaster or whatever. I'm sorry. I keep going back to this aviation show, but, they do two different things. They do a fly in every year.

10:28 Yeah. And they pick an airport somewhere centrally located, and, they encourage their listeners to fly in, or drive in or whatever. And, you know, it's not a necessarily huge moneymaker, but, you know, there is some money to be made with those kind of events. Danny Pena, I forget what his show he's a hall of famer, but I forget what his show's about. But it's most electronic stuff, and and he puts on live events all over the place and, you know, to come to those. And Yeah. He does a pretty good job with it. Yeah. And I think a big takeaway for this as well, I mean, really, just for this entire concept of monetization, is not to really get stuck in one type of income.

11:16 You know, maybe you do the the listener supported stuff, but then maybe you also give away a course or a digital product or something like that, because it gives your audience options. And people that wanna support you maybe, you know, maybe they're not interested in the four hour unedited version of your podcast, but they might be interested in, hey. Here's this little ebook or something that I wrote. It's a short story. Here you go. It's $2. You know? Yep. And, well, let's go on a myth number three here on our list. Monetization should happen immediately.

11:57 Oh, man. That one that one, you know, it's kinda sad. You know, when we've had, you know, downturns in the economy, I'll get somebody and say, hey. I need to you know, I lost my podcast. Well, it's not the time to start your podcast because, you know, you're not going to make money immediately, generally. I mean, not that not that it couldn't happen. Right. It's highly unlikely. Yeah. The odds aren't necessarily in your favor, but you could you could, you know, subvert those odds. Yeah. Yeah. You know? And the thing is is most people, most podcasters, and, you know, there are outliers and exceptions to this, are not gonna get paid to talk into the microphone.

12:41 That's that's not what you're getting paid for. You're gonna get paid for marketing something to your audience or selling something to your audience, you know, that kind of thing rather than, you know, I'm just getting paid to talk into the microphone. Ironically, Dave and I are getting paid to talk into the microphone, but that's not Yeah. This isn't all we do, though. Like No. No. No. No. No. By the long shot, This is a But but I think side gig. Yeah. This is almost like a perk of the job is being able to, you know, regularly do a podcast. Right. But I think I think where this myth I I wish we could just get rid of it because you have the the, like, you know, your holy trinity of things you need to do to really get the monetization train going, which is consistent publishing, having a clear message, and then having good audience feedback and engagement. Not positive, but also not fully negative, because you have to build that value first, and then the money comes in. And I think, I think it's kind of the the age that we're in is we're like, well, how can I make money the fastest?

13:53 And we don't wanna put in the work. And, Yeah. It's a Put in the work. Yeah. It's a it's a slog. I mean, you know, building an audience just by itself without worrying about money Yeah. Is hard. You know, you're you you know, the competition isn't as fierce as you might think, because, you know, you know, like, I I watch a lot of car YouTube, you know, a lot of YouTubers that talk about cars. But guess what? If I wanted to start a YouTube channel about cars and a podcast works the same way, Yeah. There's a lot of competition, but nobody does it like you do it.

14:37 Yeah. And some people will really gravitate to you versus some other host. So, you know, it is about the the work you put in. You know? You put in, you know, decent audio, consistent publishing. You know? Be be clear about what you're talking about, and that usually works over time. Yeah. Yeah. I was on Reddit the other day. So if you're ever on Reddit and you have a question in, like, the podcasting subreddit, there are chances that you will get some kind of comment from me or Mike or Barry or someone on the team, because we're doing that now.

15:20 And I had somebody ask, well, how do I how do I get this listener engagement? And they hadn't even recorded their first episode yet. And I was like, you gotta put the content out first because nobody wants to give you anything back until you've earned it. Yeah. It's you know, there's a lot of things in podcasting that have to, you have to actually have a podcast before doing some of these things. Right. You know? And then, you know, making any sort of money from it is is one of them. And and, yeah, on top of that, you have to have the audience already Yeah. You know, for the most part.

16:02 It's another myth. I I hear this a lot. Woah. Just put more ads in. I I had one doing programmatic that you know, our programmatic system works where you have a pre roll and a post roll. And then you can also put up to 10 spots inside your e each episode for mid rolls. And that, you know, that's all great, but I never recommend more than one or two in the mid rolls at the most. And Yeah. This person was complaining, well, I I I wanna put four more in here. You know? So they wanted 14 spots in a thirty minute episode. Oh, jeez. And I'm like, dude, you you know, it's like watching you know, if you ever watch Pluto TV, it's the streaming TV. Yeah. I mean, they have, you know, two minutes of ads to every three minutes of content. You don't want that in a podcast.

16:57 You're gonna run your audience off. Yeah. You know? Also, getting ads that have nothing whatsoever to do with your subject matter are not gonna work as well as ads that are aligned with your subject matter. Yep. You know? Just, and even, you know, it's even better if you use the product and endorse it yourself. Mhmm. That's the best kind of advertising. Yeah. I mean, those tend to pay better anyway because they're, like, you know, working with a sponsor. But, yeah, I've I've seen people people do that. There was there was one show. I won't name names largely because I can't I can't remember who it was. But you would you would literally sit through, like, anywhere from five to ten minutes of ads before the show really started. And it was, like, gross. Like, I don't mind ads. Like, I would rather pay, yeah, I would rather pay to not have ads. Like, I would give a couple dollars for that. Yeah. But One of the biggest podcasts out there would do six minutes of ads prior to the start of the show.

18:05 Yeah. I just no. Thank you. I just wanna get in and get out, because we all got stuff to do with our day. Even with a podcast, I don't wanna sit there and listen to ads forever. So, yeah, be very cognizant of the kind of ads, you know. If it's like a McDonald's ad in front of your, you know, your pop culture podcast, which is my my soup du jour, Fine. Whatever. But, you know, try and be mindful of of what it is. You don't want a McDonald's ad in front of your, you know, healthy lifestyle podcast. Your weight loss podcast. Yeah. Yeah. And then to throw in even more of them, you know, you're gonna that's probably how you're gonna lose your audience more than you'll actually gain money.

18:54 So Yeah. You know, it's the same advice I always give website developers about pop ups. You know? Yeah. You're gonna you know, pop ups, they they should be but they work. Well, yes. They work. You get 10 people a day sign up for your email list on a pop up. Mhmm. But I bet you there was 50 people there, and 40 of them said, screw this. I don't even know who you. I'm not gonna give you my email address. You know? And, you know, same idea with ads. You know? If you have relevant ads, you know, and a whole bunch of them, you know, eventually, people are just just saying, I'm tired of hitting the fast forward button Yeah. To get to the content. You know, it's like in YouTube I've noticed on YouTube, this is kind of funny, I think, is there's an ad that's, you know, built right into the video, so it's not one of their programmatic ads from YouTube.

19:51 It's a it's an ad that, you know, the host actually did. And you go up to the scroll line, and you'll see a little marker there. And if you to that marker, it'll say skipped over, skipped over I forget how they put it, but it's basically well, everybody skips this section, so we'll make a marker. Oh, yeah. I know exactly what it is. Yeah. I can't remember what it is. But I'm Frequently, frequently skipped content, I think, is what they call it. Yeah. It's something like that, which is funny. Yeah. It's hilarious. But, you know, it's just you know, people don't like ads that much.

20:31 You know, they'll they'll put up with relevant ads. They'll put up with, you know, minimal ads. Mhmm. Yeah. Just more ads does not equal more revenue. It it actually equals less listeners. Yeah. I I will I will say this. If you are doing ads in your show, and they're interesting, if you even if it's like a, you know, a VPN ad, which we see all the time over YouTube, Sometimes, there are some shows, and I'm talking podcasts. I'm talking YouTube videos. If they can do it in a way that is entertaining, I will sit there and I will listen to the thirty seconds to minute and a half ad because that's enjoyable, and it's still kind of part of the content.

21:15 So there's maybe a way to kind of subvert some expectations when it comes to ads. Right. But, alright. Let's go on to the fifth thing on our list here, the real monetization formula for independent podcasters. Like, we we know what we're doing here. Oh, I hope so. Yeah. So, basically, you know, successful independent podcasters usually follow, you know, these these few things. You know, define your clear audience. You know, make sure you get to know who your audience is or who you want them to be, I guess, is is another.

21:58 Build consistent and valuable content. Again, make good content. You know? And I'd you know, identify what that audience already spends their money on. It might be a little harder to do. We have a thing at Blueberry where you can set up a a survey, and that'll tell you a little bit more about your audience and you know, but you gotta get them just to to fill it out. So, you know, this is an audio medium, so put the ask in the audio, not a link in your show notes. Yep. And and then, of course, you know, align the monetization with, you know, whatever need that your audience comes up with.

22:43 Yeah. I think if, you know, going back to what we talked about before, if if you have a podcast where some written content would be the best way for your audience to engage with you. Like, sure, they're listening to you, but maybe you're an author, you're a storyteller, something like that. Having, like, an ebook or just a PDF or, you know, some tips and trip tips and tricks things, you know, that that will connect to that audience better than having minute and a half long ads for, you know, whatever the most popular mattress is.

23:24 Because in the early days of podcasting, I know Mike probably remembers, Casper mattresses were everywhere. Like, everybody had a Casper I have one. Sponsorship. I never did. I wanted one, but, just because I wanted a mattress. Yeah. But, you know, people will get burned out on the mismatched, monetization options, whether that's ads or if you're just not offering, quote, unquote, the right product. It it just it needs to feel natural and, like, you are choosing it. Yeah. You know? Even even with programmatic advertising, you can trim down what categories, that are being delivered to your show your audience. So make sure you go through those options. And even if that means you only have one category left, at least you know and you can be confident that your audience is getting something that connects with your show. Right. You know, just podcast here's the beauty of podcasting.

24:32 It's not just content. It's usually our relationship with your listeners. And that will, you know, by itself, create some revenue opportunities. You know, it's not about chasing trends or copying shows. There's already a Joe Rogan podcast out there. You don't need to copy Joe Rogan. In fact, that probably won't work. Right. You know, years ago, there was, John Lee Dumas, does a show still, E on Fire or Entrepreneurs on Fire or whatever he calls it. And his formula is to ask the same 12 questions to to, entrepreneurs, and it works for him.

25:14 But Mhmm. You know, we don't need 70 other whatever on fire podcasts. Right. You know, it's just not gonna work. So, you know, be yourself and create those relationships, and that's gonna help you grow your audience. And the bigger the show, the easier it is to monetize. But that's not always, you know, necessary to bring in some money. Yep. So I guess we could wrap this up. So if you take anything away from this episode, you don't need to be huge to monetize. You need to be intentional. We definitely recommend that you focus on serving your audience well.

25:57 And when you do that, the right revenue opportunities are gonna make sense. They're gonna show themselves to you to put it in a esoteric kind of way. Right. And like I said, if you're not sure where to start, look at what you're already doing well, you know, your expertise, your niche, your community, and that's your monetization for, foundation rather than, you know, let's try something completely new. You know? Just do what you do. Yeah. Don't wanna blindside your audience. Yeah. So, I I guess that's it. Thank you so much for listening to Podcast Insider. We will talk to you next week.

26:38 And, for the full show notes and, probably some other stuff we didn't talk about here, go over to podcastinsider.com. Thanks for joining us. Come back next week. And in the meantime, head to podcastinsider.com for more information, to subscribe, share, and read our show notes. To check out our latest suite of services and learn how Blueberry can help you leverage your podcast, visit blueberry.com. That's Blueberry without the e's. We couldn't afford the e's.