Recap: 2025 Podcasting in the News

0:00 Welcome to Podcast Insider. I'm Mackenzie Bennett, marketing director here at Blueberry. And I'm Mike Dell, vice president of customer relations here at Blueberry. And I'm Dave Clements, technical support and social media specialist here at Blueberry. And today, as we wrap up 2025, we're gonna talk about the year and some of the things that happened in podcasting. You're listening to Podcast Insider, a weekly podcast bringing insights, advice, and insider tips and tricks to help you start, grow, and thrive through podcasting with the support of your team here at Blueberry Podcasting. Welcome. Let's dive in. And I'd like to congratulate Mackenzie on her promotion to marketing director.

0:41 So, that's something that happened just recently here in 2025. Thank you. Rounding out the year well. Yeah. So, there's a lot of things that happened this year, you know, in the in the industry. And, we put together a little list of things and, some new stories, which we'll probably have links to in the show notes. But, why don't you kick it off, Dave? Yeah. So kind of our first section here, I guess, would be, just the market, and listening behavior. So Riverside reports that, podcast audience numbers continue to climb.

1:25 In 2025, over 584,000,000 people listen to podcasts globally, and consumption habits are shifting. Yeah. And and what's cool about it is thirty four percent in the, in The US, have listened to podcasts, and, you know, the average is, like, eight point something percent or 8.3 podcast episodes per week. So that's a little higher than it's been. I'm kind of impressed with that. Yeah. Those are I think those are pretty good numbers. And we're definitely seeing video, get into the podcast landscape. If anybody's been paying attention Yeah.

2:11 Video. Video. Video. Yeah. YouTube took a big step, in 2025. So we're seeing a lot of those, and Riverside is saying that more than half of the shows, are now posting full video on YouTube. So I think that is from their That must be from their, their customer base because, I we don't see that here. We you know? Well, there's a a fair number. But, Yeah. That's their platform's information, I from what I gather. Yeah. Yeah. You know, which makes sense when they do video natively, but, I think we see it as a much smaller percentage.

2:54 Yeah. It it's video is one of those things. It takes a lot more work to do. You know, now with something like Riverside where it's kind of all packaged up for you, that's it is a little easier. But, you know, think about this. You know? If I wanna do a podcast and I don't feel like shaving or combing my hair that morning, I don't you know, if I'm doing video, I gotta do all that. And, you know, for for women, it's probably worse, you know, for, you know, getting ready to be camera ready. That is correct. Yeah. And, you know, it's like, you know, why why do we need to do that if you don't want to? Now there's nothing at all wrong with that. Again, you know, I I I have lots of strong opinions. I'll try to keep to myself here. But I also have strong opinions about being the one on video.

3:44 That is not something I have any interest in whatsoever. And it's, you know, it's whatever you're comfortable with having your face, your your reputation, your name, everything out there to the public like that. That's just another that's going video is another level past an audio podcast for sure. Right. And do what you're good at. You know, if you're good at audio but, freeze up on a camera, don't turn on the camera. I mean, you know, do if you wanna do some, like, video clips or whatever, do animations or slide shows or something like that, you know, as far as promotional ways. But, you know, you don't have to do video or at least you don't have to be on camera.

4:32 Yeah. We just published a YouTube video probably a month or two ago specifically about, video podcasting and should you do it. And the conclusion, if you want the TLDR, is basically, if you have time, do it. If you're comfortable, do it, but don't feel like you have to. Right. You know, there's plenty of podcasts. You know? Anecdotally, I you know, I don't have any hard data on this, but anecdotally, podcasts listening slash viewing. You know? So there's some podcasts that I know of that do both a full video version and a full audio version, via RSS. And via RSS, it's about 10% watch the video and 90% listen to the audio, which still is pretty good. You get 10% more audience on video, you know, but, you know, the the percentage isn't really you know, when they say the the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

5:32 Yeah. You know? But then, you know, these these particular shows also post on YouTube, x, Facebook, whatever, so they get some additional views that way, which aren't reflected in their podcast stats. But still, it's a smaller percentage that watch rather than listen. And a lot of people on YouTube and and, one of our teammates, Sean, says he's kinda doing that a lot now is he does watch the video version of a podcast on YouTube, but he's generally not looking at the screen. He's listening and doing something else, and every once in a while, I might look up at the screen. So, you know, just because they listen on YouTube doesn't mean they're actually paying attention to what's on the screen. So that's Mhmm. You know, just like these are anecdotal. I don't have any hard evidence of any of this, but, you know, just just my gut feeling and from what I've seen.

6:26 But, anyway, let's press on here. So the industry itself is is doing good. It's doing well, quote, unquote, remains strong. There is you know, we took a dip, I think, just for a cup for a year or two there, the industry with a dip in listeners and creators, but I think that was you know, we spiked, in the beginning of 2020 and into '21, and then things kinda started to dip for a while in '22, '23, twenty four ish. But this year this year was okay. Yeah. That's that's good. We're we're gaining podcasters, and we're gaining podcast listeners. And, actually, the listener side is growing more than the podcaster side, but, you know, both are doing fine.

7:24 Again, you know, the the barrier to entry into podcasting, especially with just audio, is Mhmm. Is it's low now. I mean, you can jump on Blueberry and in ten minutes, get your feed put together, record something. All the editing tools are so much better than they used to be. Oh, yeah. You know, all of that stuff, distribution, you know, we've we've just revamped our our destinations to where a lot of those are just one click. One click, agree to this, you know, hit apply, you're you're on. You know, Apple, Spotify, Index, you know, the the three major ones, and then all the other ones are are fairly easy to do. And, you know, that wasn't the case five years ago.

8:13 Yeah. So Yeah. Waiting a week to see if you're gonna be on Apple or or something like that. Those days are over. That's that's pretty quick now. So, I I don't know. I I kind of expect to see more podcasters coming into the space because it is easier. You know, we've got microphones that plug right into your iPhone that actually sound pretty good. Mhmm. They're, you know, maybe not studio level, but they're probably the equivalent to what we were using Good enough. Eight years ago. Good enough. They're not the yeah. They're not the stick microphones that sounded like you talking into a wet paper bag. Or, earbuds like, Dave was last week on this up on this show.

8:57 Yeah. I just gotta pick on you a little bit. Didn't sound bad. You know, one of the other things I've seen, is ads. You know, the the thing about ads is, you know, they're like, Edison came out with a research that people don't mind listening to ads. Well, you didn't talk to me. I promise you. You know? I I understand the need for ads. I understand, you know, our casters gotta make money, you know, if they wanna keep doing this, you know, and there's businesses out there that that's what they do is, make money from ads on podcast. I get that.

9:38 And I will put up with a certain amount of that, but some of it is getting to the point of ridiculous. Sorry. I had a rant on my regular show the other day about that. Anyway but, you know, creators and podcast networks exploring different monetization strategies other than ads, like, subscriptions, listener support sponsorships, value for value, not the Bitcoin kind, but just, you know, we provide value, send us some money for the value, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah. I'd much rather do that than get involved in Bitcoin. Yeah. Exactly. You know? But, you know, I I do that. I have a couple of Patreon people that I support because I like their YouTube channel or I like their podcast.

10:28 And that's a much better way than getting a whole bunch of ads. And, you know, and then it works out for the creators too. But ads are fine. Again, you know, if that's what you wanna do, do it. You know, we have some tools to help you get ads for your show, and and, you know, it's all good. But, again, you know, there's a certain number of audience members that are not gonna put up with that. So I think part of my ad reasoning, you know, whether I'm on the the okay side or the annoyed side of it is what is the quality of this episode that I'm listening to and overall the show as well.

11:09 If if it doesn't sound great, if it's not, you know, well thought out, if they're just kinda rambling, if they're doing all that stuff, I'm I'm gonna get sick of the ads. If it is professionally done, if it sounds amazing, if it, you know, came out at a timely place during the week, like, you know, if it's news and it's relevant and, like, this is actually good information I wanted right now, I don't care if there's ads because this is free. Yeah. And some of them do the ads. It goes back and forth. And some of them do the ads really well. You know? Right. And that's that's the other thing. You know? There's some platforms out there that have programmatic ads, YouTube being one of them, where if you don't pay YouTube to get rid of the ads, they you know, somebody's in the middle of a sentence and this irrelevant ad comes in there.

12:00 Yeah. Now if I'm listening to, you know, something from, I don't know, 99% Invisible is one of the shows I listen to, and they do the ads really well. They they read them. You know, you would think it's part of the show, and they're always relevant to whatever they're talking about or at least in the subject matter. That's exactly what I mean when I say I don't care. So if if I have some advice for people who wanna monetize their show. Get really good at ads. You need to practice doing these. This isn't something that you just throw in. Like, actually take take time outside of recording the episode and practice doing these and decide, like, oh, that one's better than the other. Like, maybe that we should do it this way type of thing because, like, you could really you could be a thorn in someone's listening experience or you could just be a blip and, like Yeah. They'll they'll take it.

12:56 I think to kind of tack onto that as well, if you're not interested in actually taking the time to do the ads, I guess, what you would call, quote, unquote, right, maybe you just start a Patreon or, a coffee or whatever and do that value for value thing? That's probably a better way to go. That way you're you're being more honest with your audience. I think that was always something that that was my approach. I don't want to have to sit there and figure out how to do an ad well, but I am putting my all into an episode. So maybe you give me a dollar a month on Patreon, you know, and most of that is coming to me instead of a very small percentage coming to me and then going to the advertiser.

13:42 Yeah. And another another way of doing it, getting ads I don't know. This isn't really the topic of the episodes, but, you know, getting ads, you you do affiliates. You know, there's nothing wrong with you creating your own really great ad for an affiliate program that you're interested in. You know? That's another way of doing it without having to deal with, well, this this copy is not what I want and, you know, or some, you know, programmatic thing that may or may not fit your show. You know, that's who knows? I I just say, that's another way of doing it. Let's get back on track here. In 2025, it really hasn't been smooth for everyone. There's been some layoffs in the industry. Wondery, which was one of the biggest podcast studios, had a major restructuring with layoffs. They got rid of their CEO.

14:34 They canceled a bunch of shows, and, yeah, it was it was ugly. And, you know We are not immune to layoffs in this economy. I don't think anyone is. But Right. No. Definitely took a hit earlier this year. Yep. And, you know, but, you know, some of those big studios, they had staffs that were unreal. You know, they put they put a show together. You know, one show might have a staff of 50 people or 25 people. And can that be sustained in in an economy like this? Obviously not. And, Amazon, which owns Wondery, finally decided, well, we need to, you know, we need to cut this off a bit.

15:18 And, you know, they they're still existing, and they still do quality shows and all that, but, they're doing it with a 110 less people. Mhmm. That's that sucks for them. Yeah. And sucks for everybody, really, because that was a great studio. It is a great studio. But, anyway, one good news thing. For the first time ever, there's a Golden Globe Award for best podcast. So that's interesting. Yeah. I I don't know how I feel about the, the nominee. Oh, no. I have no idea. I am excited to see, this be added to the Golden Globes.

16:01 I don't really it feels like it should be the the Emmys and not the Golden Globes. I'm not entirely sure. Well, Emmy's for more TV. Golden Globes is basically is all entertainment, I think, is why that happened. But maybe the Emmys will do it. You never know. Yeah. Yeah. The Golden Globes are are, film and TV. Yeah. Well, Netflix is adding podcast, so, you know, Netflix is, eligible for the Emmy Awards because they're That's true. TV. So maybe that'll happen. You know, one of the shows that they've picked up, you know, a little further down our list here, but, you know, they made some deals, and they're putting some video podcasts on Netflix as part of their content. And that's, you know, that might make it eligible for the TV type awards.

16:54 So interesting. Well, the Webby's also added podcasts a couple years ago. I forget how long ago that was, but, you know, the Webby's used to just be for web pages. How boring is that? The Internet has vastly changed Yes. For sure. For the worse, for the better. Yep. I I changed my mind on that throughout the day every day. Yep. Now when you go to a website smart to do. Yeah. You go to a website and a pop up gets in your face before you can even look at the website, you're like, oh, okay. The web web sucks. And then later on, you read something, oh, that's really good. You know? I get it. Oh, yeah.

17:36 What else we got going for 2025? What did they do? Spotify really is is just putting more money and effort into podcasting from what I can tell. They are do they added a podcast discovery feature Mhmm. So that, you know, shows can actually be found better within Spotify. So I don't listen to shows in Spotify. I listen to or I use Spotify for music and some audio books every once in a while, but I I mean, as someone who doesn't listen to podcasts on Spotify, I have noticed the podcasts. They've made it, you know, impossible to not see.

18:17 Yep. I get those. And, you know, I actually just I have to say, I discovered a show that I like that way. And I'm not a boss you to say? It does. Same on you. Bad because I hate Spotify for podcasting, but, you know, and you guys know that. Yeah. But I found a show, and I'm like, oh, wow. Really? Cool. And and I went to my podcast app of choice and subscribed to it. I did not listen to it in Spotify. That I have done that as well. I have noticed a show or, like, saw that, you know, so and so was a guest on some episode, and I was like, oh, okay. I gotta go listen to this Yep. In Apple Podcast. And I go to I go to Overcast. That's still my daily driver.

19:01 But Yeah. I I do something similar because I don't use Spotify. I'm all in on YouTube right now. Mhmm. And so if I'm listening to YouTube music, they also have a podcast section in there. Mhmm. And I kinda do that same thing. They're they're more based off of what I've watched on YouTube than what I've listened to. Mhmm. But, yeah, my my actual podcast app, which is currently overcast, it's I've probably added 15 new podcasts that I have a hard time getting completed every single week or whatever. So Well, I have an unfair advantage in that way. I spend too much time on the tractor this time of year, so I listen to podcasts.

19:43 So I actually ran out of podcasts the other day, which is Yeah. That's true. I have I have, you know, a driver too around the holidays that I'll probably get some get some episodes out of my queue on my phone. So Yep. So, Apple came out with their, top or top shows. I don't know what they call it. Top new shows, top charts. And Yeah. If I can find that. There it is. And, of course, the usual suspects show up in the list, the Joe Rogan, The Daily, Mel Robbins, Crime Junkie, Dateline. My wife is addicted to Dateline.

20:24 Smartless. Hey. You know, I have never listened to that. I heard it's pretty good. Call Her Daddy. Guest. Yeah. It depends on the guest. I that's isn't that Jason Bateman? Jason Bateman. Yeah. Sean something and, Will Arnett. Yeah. Yeah. And Call Her Daddy, never listened to that one. This American Life, I used to listen to that one a lot, and I just haven't. And then Huberman's Lab was number nine and Ezra Klein Show? Never heard of it. Okay. And then, top new shows. Of course, Amy Poehler's got one called Good Hang. That's been pretty popular, actually. That yeah. She's kind of a knocking it out of the park.

21:06 I mean, I am an Amy Poehler fan, but I've listened to a couple episodes, and she's she's doing a good job of, like, actually being a host. She's not just a celebrity, like, talking to a you know? Yeah. That that happens. That's good. I I remember when podcast one used to be recruiting, you know, just they'd recruit any celebrity to do a podcast, and some of them were terrible at it. Yeah. And I, you know, I'm I'm a fan of Pawn Stars, you know, that TV show. And Rick Harrison, the guy that runs that show, they they did a podcast when he made it eight episodes. It was terrible. And now they're doing a podcast slash YouTube channel that's pretty cool called Pawn After Dark.

21:48 So his format that they were doing for that audio show was terrible. But now that he's doing it on video and he's got a cohost and it's really cool, you know, that's, you know, that now he's into podcasting and it actually works where, you know, not always. But, yeah, here we'll have the link to this whole list. There's, you know, top episodes, most shared shows, most shared episodes, most followed shows, and so on and so on. We'll have links in the show notes to Apple's top chart list. Yeah. To be honest, the top charts or the top shows, like, the top 10 of 2025, a lot of these have already been in this list.

22:30 Year after year. Yeah. I people. Yep. There are so many podcasts out there. You could listen to a lot more than just this. Stop. Well, yeah. Well, you know, the thing is is those are like the gateway drugs. Okay. Somebody says, oh, I really like this show, and I'm gonna listen to the podcast. Like, my wife, for instance, likes that, Dateline show. She likes liked it on TV. She'll you know, she likes it on podcast. But then she discovers other true crime podcasts. And now when we get in the car, she's wanting to listen to podcasts, not to radio, which is awesome. So we're we're we're we're in onboarding new podcast listeners with these big shows.

23:15 So that that's actually really good. It's a good way to think about that. You know? And and same thing with, you know, all these minor apps, I call them, you know, as far as distribution. Yeah. You know? Get in Spotify. Even if you don't listen to Spotify as, you know, yourself, people will find you there. Some will listen there, and some will Mhmm. Find you and go elsewhere. Same thing with, you know, YouTube music, with all the places. Somebody might find you there and then go to their regular podcast app and and, sign up and listen to your show or or just go over there and listen, whatever. So but, you know what all this means for us indie creators? I consider myself one.

24:02 You know, visibility is more important than it used to be, you know, and, again, another plus for video. You know, you get on YouTube, you know, even if it's just a short clip or, you know, a one off video once in a while, that'll help people discover you. But yeah. And, I mean, as for the discoverability and, like, the video portion of it, I mean, there's there's a popular podcast that the video component of it shows up on my TikTok algorithm all the time. Yeah. So I get that. I don't actually listen to the show because it's way too long, and I just don't care.

24:46 Do you like the However however, they did get my money when they went on tour and came to Columbus. Like, I went to that a couple months ago, so they still got my money somehow. Yeah. But, you know, even the you know, like shorts or clips or TikToks or, you know, all the different short video formats, I I follow a lot of people that way just for the shorts. And, you know, and I won't you know, I'm not gonna listen to their hour and a half show, but I'll listen to their thirty to thirty second to two minute little shorts here and there, and I and I follow them quite closely that way. But, you know, I guess the what we're trying to say for for, you know, indie podcasters is, you know, be flexible.

25:29 You know, you know, test out stuff. You know, Dave and I talked about that last week, you know, testing out formats. Well, you could also test out, you know, adding video, adding shorts, adding clips, You know? Or It's it's not hard to, like, literally just buy, like, a little stand for your phone and just record yourself recording your episode and then clip that and throw that on social because there are a lot of people out there that they they could see that thirty second clip and go, oh, this is interesting. I wanna know more. Then they follow you. They start listening. It's it's something I've been talking about with podcasters that I'm working with, whether it's, you know, answering tickets or on the phones or just podcasters actually know in my life. I'm like, mhmm. This might be something worth doing, and it's it's low effort, so play around with it. Yep. For sure.

26:27 And, you know, talking about monetization, you know, ads are not the only way to monetize a show. So Nope. Be, you know, be flexible in that. You know, you could do, like, we've mentioned before, you know, Patreon, buy me a coffee, PayPal donate links, bag, whatever, and, you know, you can, you know, make a little money that way. It's not just all about ads. You know, there there are ads available, but that might not be right for your show or your audience. I do understand people wanting to do video because they know they could make money off of YouTube and TikTok and Instagram.

27:07 If they, get enough audience. That's that's the thing. The threshold for making money on YouTube is rather high. Yes. And I believe it's 10,000 followers on TikTok before you, before you make anything. And, also, I think only in The US or I don't know. That gets complicated. I know Canada. It's that way. Yeah. That's all, all changed here lately too because the ownership of TikTok has kinda been thrown around. Correct. As of yesterday, the eighteenth, they said they're gonna sell to some US investors, so we'll see how that goes. Yep. So Where that happens? Interesting to watch.

27:48 That's something to watch next year. Yeah. Yeah. That was also the 2025 in January. That was a big decision. So Sure. Yeah. Who knows? Yep. But be flexible because you never know what's gonna happen to these big companies, and they might change things on a dime. And and your money could be you know, the way that you're getting money could just be gone. Yeah. Well, I've I've run into a couple of YouTubers that, have come to us to start podcasting, and they got demonetized by YouTube for whatever reason, and their entire income went poof. Yeah. And if you build it yourself, own it yourself, and diversify how you're making money on it, maybe one will fall out, but you'll have others to back it up.

28:36 So that's a good thing. And, of course, as we always say, quality and consistency are still big winners. You know, just, you know, be consistent, do what you're good at, and, you know, offer good content, decent audio or video or whatever you're, into. And, you know, that that will win the day. You know? Just keep plugging away. Yeah. Because you only get better as you keep doing something. I I think I say it to Mike and Mackenzie after we record an episode. I was like, man, I am so rusty. I haven't actually made a podcast regularly in ages. So Yeah. You know threw you another wolf.

29:18 Yeah. I know. Right? But, yeah, like, you just get better the more you do it. So, like, figure out a schedule that works for you and tweak things as you go. Like, it you're I think sometimes and this is a little rant of mine. But sometimes I think we look at these highly produced podcasts, like the ones that are sitting at the top of the Apple charts right now or whatever, and we're like, that's what we wanna do. And it's like, yes. But how many people are working on that show and engineering the sound or video or whatever? And just at some point, you may get there. Just keep going. Yeah. And, you know, there's no reason an indie can't do a lot of that themselves, but how much time do you wanna spend?

30:01 That's that's part of the problem, you know, with with people who get a regular day job and they, you know, they got all all the other things going on in life. They don't have time to spend four hours editing a podcast episode. Yeah. And It can be a grind for sure. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm I've I've been editing for the last couple of weeks, for this show, you know, because Kate's, taking a much deserved vacation. And, you know, I I'm rusty at it, I'll tell you. But, you know, I got one cranked out today, so we're good. It's definitely a skill you have to exercise. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And speaking of, the go ahead. No. I was just gonna say I you know, on my personal shows, it's very rare that I edit anything. It's basically clip the ends, be done.

30:51 Yeah. And speaking of taking forever to edit, we are we're seeing, you know, a lot of recognition for long form storytellers. And this is exciting to me being a, you know, D and D slash tabletop role playing podcaster myself. You know, we talked about the award shows at the beginning toward the beginning of the episode. And I think it's cool to see those kind of shows get more recognition. There are a couple shows in my mind that I'm like, I can't wait to see those shows hit the top charts because they're so good. Whether you like D and D or not, just the storytelling is really, really cool.

31:40 Oh, very good. I got a a some personal stuff here that happened in 2025. As as, of course, I'm sure you know, we lost our founder, CEO, good friend, and a cohost on this show, Todd Cochran, this year, and it was a significant setback for us here at Blueberry and for the whole podcasting industry, frankly. And the good news is we have a very deep team here. We're, you know, we're pressing on with Todd's vision and some of our own, and, you know, just wanted to acknowledge that for this last show of the year. You know, Blueberry's here to stay, and our commitment to podcast creators and the open nature of podcasting is still here and still intact.

32:29 So, we look forward to 2026. And, of course, 2025 has shown podcasting is still mostly audio. That's my opinion. Video is getting more popular with some audience. Podcasting nowadays is about flexibility, formats, and adapting to what listeners actually want. And get to know your listeners. That's, I guess, the key takeaway, I would say. And we're seeing platforms change and evolve, so every single one of us creators has to stay nimble. But at the end of the day, remember that good content is still gonna win out, and, it doesn't matter if you're doing audio or video.

33:11 Okay. Before we get out of here, I have to put you guys on the spot. Okay. I don't know. What was your favorite show of 2025? My favorite show. Probably something you've never heard of, but, Midlife Pilot Podcast. That's the one that's like an indie show? Yeah. I, I found them on Spotify and then promptly went to Overcast and subscribed, and, so far, I'm loving the show. Yeah. I think my favorite show from this year, is called Worlds Beyond Number. It is Dungeons and Dragons tabletop role playing game podcast.

33:55 Just great, great voice acting and imagination happening on that show. Yeah. I like it a lot. Nice. So what was yours? Mine yeah. Mine, has been the same for a couple years, is Song Exploder. It's just they they have the artist that, you know, who sings the song, come on to the episode and go through how it was made and why they chose this and, you know, talking about how it was produced and who wrote it, if they wrote it, all that type of stuff.

34:35 So that one is hard to top for me. Yeah. That's a solid show. Yeah. It's been around for I don't know how long, but I've been listening to it for a very long time. Almost ten years, I think. Yeah. It it's definitely close to that. They've I'll have to go check that out. They've had some different hosts over the years, but it is just, like, quality episodes, and then they play the song at the end. So I would love to listen to, you know, maybe I'll try and find more independent shows that do somewhat around the same thing, but that one would be hard to do independent because, one, they have the actual artist, and, two, they have to pay for License. To play the song every single episode.

35:19 Yeah. So it's not cheap to do that one, I would assume. Overall, this is the perfect time to experiment experiment for indie creators that goes for any medium right now. I think everyone is just kind of becoming more open, and likely to watch local indie content, as opposed to from these big networks and corporations and everything. So this is just a a good 2025 recap. Yeah. So I guess I'll I'll, wrap it up here. Happy New Year. We'll see you in 2026.

36:03 Thanks for joining us. Let's meet up next week. And in the meantime, for more information, to subscribe, share, or follow, check out the show notes at podcastinsider.com. To check out our latest suite of services and how Blueberry can help you leverage your podcast, visit blueberry.com. That's Blueberry without the e's.