What is a Podcast? - PCI 347

0:00 He's not on Apple, he is not on YouTube. He is not on any, any podcast related thing. He is not on any social stuff, but he still can podcast. Whether or not you don't want to go search him out, that's up to you. Right? But that's up to you. That's that's the way it should be, right? Yeah. You know, and part of free speech, you know, I always been told that, you know, free speech is not for stuff you agree with. It's more important for stuff you don't agree with. Definitely. You're listening to Podcast Insider, a weekly podcast, bringing insights, advice, and insider tips and tricks to help you start, grow, and thrive through podcasting. With the support of your team here at Blueberry Podcasting, welcome.

0:42 Let's dive in. This is Todd Cochran, c e o and co-founder of Blueberry. And I'm Mike Dell, VP of Customer Relations here at Blueberry. And this week we're gonna answer the age old question, what is a podcast and what is not a podcast? And we also have an interview with Tom Rossi from the Podcast Standards Project. So, Mike, oh, oh boy. Everyone's trying to define a podcast these days, which is kind of, uh, ironic, or they're trying to redefine a podcast. Yeah. I think it's more of a redefine, but you know, there's, there's lots of, uh, ways of defining podcasts. So, uh, we asked a bunch of people on our staff here what they thought a podcast was. Of course, the dictionary definitions from the Oxford English Dictionary official.

1:35 It's a digital audio file made available on the internet for downloading to a computer or a mobile device, typically available as a series, new installments of which can be received by subscribers. Notice that word automatically. . You know, one thing that we need to emphasize here is that there's really should be two mindsets. And, um, number one, as a listener, listeners at this point, they are just interested in getting access to the content that they wanna listen to. And I think that's spying from a listener standpoint in understanding that, uh, podcasts come in, uh, many shapes and forms. Could be audio or video, primarily audio though, uh, in a traditional sense. But as a podcaster, as a podcaster, we need to understand really a little more on the technical side so that we understand the value and what podcasting has, has done for the space. I, I think we'll get into that more, a little bit deeper. But I think we can start off with some of the, uh, responses from team members here at Blueberry than Mike. And you, you and I can have a little discussion about it. Dave said, from a non-technical side, a podcast is a collection of episodes, which can be audio, video, but audio's the most widely used form of media.

2:59 It becomes a podcast when it's distributed by an RSS feed. So that was from Dave. And it's interesting, he said, from a non-technical side, it's distributed by an RSS feed. That's a good technical sometimes, but . Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, Aaron, uh, our graphic designer, he said, a podcast is a digital broadcast about a topic or a series of topics, so that could cover a lot of stuff, YouTube and TikTok and all that stuff. So, uh, he has a little wider definition. Cindy, who is on our social team, she says, A podcast is a storytelling tool. And I, I agree with that a lot.

3:44 Yeah, no, nothing wrong with that. And, you know, and, and you were talking about, there's two different ways to look at that. It listeners and, you know, creators, but there's kind of a, a third one is, you know, when you're doing the creation side of it and don't care about the tech, that's what Cindy's kinda after, you know, it's, uh, right. I make the content and then distribute it many different ways. So, you know, podcasting, maybe one of those. B Barry said, podcasting is a revolution similar to Guttenberg invention of the printing press, allowing the spread of the written, written word. Whereas podcasting allows the spreading of the spoken word.

4:26 Yep. That, uh, that makes sense too, you know? Well, you know, for the longest time radio, if you wanted to be on the radio, there was huge gatekeepers. You know, there wasn't, you know, a place where you could just, you know, flip on a transmitter and start transmitting legally, you know, nowadays you can go worldwide with just a simple microphone, a computer, a phone, internet connection, and that's all you need to get stuff out. Whereas back in the day, it was harder to do that. And that is similar to, you know, the printing press of being important. Of course, Mackenzie on her co-host on here, she said, uh, on demand, mainly audio storytelling content for the most part. Yeah, it is just storytelling. There are plenty different formats.

5:19 You guys talked about that in a previous episode. You know, the different formats of podcasts. So it may not always be a storytelling, but in any, you know, like a news news thing would be a story. So, yeah, I guess it is storytelling. That makes sense. Mike, I see that you ran the, uh, you asked chat g b t for the definition. Yes. Very humorous one. Yeah. Podcast, A noun. A series of digital audio files in which people have passionate discussion about everything from true crime to potted plants, providing imperfect excuse to ignore your to-do list, procrastinate on chores, and avoid awkward small talk with strangers during commutes.

6:01 Often mistaken for an invisible friend when listeners are caught laughing alone in public. So I think I did a pretty good job on the humor there. A little bit fun from a podcast standpoint. And I think about, you know, when I'm on an airplane going somewhere and I'm listening to something, I just start laughing cuz I'm, you know, I'm listening. The person next to me in the seat probably thinks I'm crazy, but . Anyway, I thought that was fun. You know, it's, uh, the podcast and the reason we've been talking, wanna talk about this today, really truly boils down to is No, recently, recently, YouTube is released a podcast section, and most of the podcasts that are in that section are all video podcast, but there's no r s s speed. So in a sense, they might be podcasts, but, you know, really just video channels. There's some, been some stuff that showed up on, uh, YouTube music that looks more like a podcast with audio content, but sometimes it's just repurposed video. Matter of fact, my show shows up on YouTube music to name, and they strip the audio out of the video for the video portion of my show.

7:03 So it is a little bit of a misnomer, but if I really look at the definition of podcasting, and again, this is kind of the old curmudgeon in me comes out because I've been here really from the beginning and understand the true reason that podcasting really exploded, uh, when it came on the scene in 2004 was while we were blogging and had this freedom expression online at that time, and the internet was, uh, really ramping up and, you know, it become quite the mainstay. The ability to distribute audio or video at that point was pretty difficult. You could do it on your own webpage. People may find it if they might have been able to play it, if they, there was a flash player.

7:44 There was nothing simple really even about getting audio online. And if you wanted to have it distributed, again, you had to sign contracts and make deals with big companies that were the gatekeepers. So when the simple realization was made that we could link audio that we created in a RSS feed, which is basically extensible markup language XML that contains, uh, gobbly gloop that makes your eyes glaze over when you read it. But there's a tag in there called an Enclosure. And that enclosure basically was the ability to say, here's the hyperlink to the media file and here's the media type and allowed software packages then to read that file and say, oh, there's a brand new episode.

8:33 And put that into a library that like we see today on Apple Podcast and Overcast and Podcast and all these great podcast apps and even on podcast websites. So the ability was really profound. At that time, we didn't have a TikTok. There was no YouTube, there was no LinkedIn, there was no Twitter. None of this existed when podcasting started. So if podcasting had come later, it may not have had the success that it had if it hadn't been introduced when it was because it filled the need to be able to syndicate content without really any controls. So you'll, Mike, you and I talk about often that the, and and Mackenzie as well, that the, you know, the rssv like your radio tower, it gives you the ability to broadcast a k a syndicate, uh, your content only the differences. Instead of putting out a signal, people come to your radio tower and grab the media file and, and put that in their devices. And so, r s s in itself has revolutionized and made podcasting what it is today by being open. And I, I continue to call it the last bastion of free speech, because if you are publishing your podcast in the traditional way with an RSS feed, you have almost a guarantee that you never can be silenced if you're on your own.com. Now, granted, 99.9% of people are never gonna have an issue with being taken down or removed off a platform. But YouTube itself has been,

10:05 and even Spotify has removed a lot of content that they deem not appropriate by just saying one wrong word in the content. So the key difference here is, is that you control your shingle. You control your, your, your brand, and you have the ability to, to, to distribute and syndicate your content as you wish where you want it. So for me, podcasting, ultimately, I guess my definition of is the ability to consume and distribute the content that I want in a way that cannot be silenced, uh, from a podcast R S S V. Now, my audience, , on the other hand, most of 'em, you know, they, they may go to Spotify, they might go to Apple Podcast, they might follow the show or subscribe.

10:52 They may listen on Amazon music, they may listen on YouTube. I don't, I really don't care where they listen, but ultimately they know it's a podcast and it's available via RSS feed podcasters. I think that's really the key here is we technically, as podcasters need to know the technical definition of a podcast, but for our audience, we don't really have to remind them. They don't care. Just say, Hey, I'm. Hill. No, no, not at all. In my case, my, I think of podcasting in two ways. One, it's a distribution method for your content. Simple. Just like YouTube is a distribution platform, Spotify is a distribution platform. There's other, you know, other ways of, you know, TikTok and, you know, all that stuff is a way to distribute your content.

11:46 Podcasting is just one of them. It's, it's different from television, it's different from radio, it's different from YouTube. It's different from a lot of these things. You know, as far as the end user, like you said, it's not really, they don't care as long as they can get it. And, you know, the other thing, as a podcaster, I want them to know where Homebase is. Of course. That way if I ever disappear from one of the other ones, you can find me, no problem. And then on the other side, it, uh, it's a creative outlet, you know, and just like a YouTube channel can be, or a TikTok channel or Facebook for that matter, whatever, that's just an another place to, uh, do content. Now, I, I prefer audio over video as far as making content, you know, as, as the old joke goes, I have a face for radio, it's a lot easier for me to flip on the mic and start talking and not worry about whether I got a, a hanger outta my nose or a hair out of place or something like that, you know?

12:50 So, uh, but yeah, as far as the a strict definition, you know, the listeners don't care. Podcasters should just have a, an idea of what it is and how it works. I think for, you know, because now we have some hosting platforms are making RSS optional, and that's really, really too bad because they think, oh, I can just be on Spotify. I don't need to be anywhere else. My podcast is over here. And what they're really doing is they're missing opportunities for greater reach. The key really is, is the ability to have your listeners be able to consume that content where, where you really want them. Now, if you just want them to list on Spotify, that's fine. But if you want them to have this, this global access, I think really the key here is, is the ability to syndicate your content. And, and it'll be quite, if we think about it, podcasting is really unique.

13:44 To do a TikTok, you have to be on TikTok to do YouTube, you have to be on YouTube to post something on Instagram, you have to have an Instagram account. Same thing with Twitter, with a podcast, you can, you, you really can be everywhere. You can be on all of the apps by simply having a single point of presence with the website in your own r s s speed, or even a blueberry created feed within our dashboard to be able to get this, this syndication everywhere. And it doesn't mean you are just locked into one place for media consumption. Does that make it confusing for the listeners?

14:25 Maybe, but I think most podcasters are gonna say, Hey, you know, followers subscribe to me over on Apple Podcast or on Spotify or wherever you may listen to podcasts. And again, we know that podcasts are consumed really at this point on over 300 different platforms and locations. So they listen far and wide. And many times people listen in areas that I didn't even know my show was being syndicated to because the RSS feed was picked up, it was added to a directory. It may have been added to a, a, a tech site where there was a, a section for podcasts, or could have been in a business. Podcasts are now expanding beyond traditional platforms that we consume and are being picked up all over place because the RSS is open and it's about syndication.

15:15 Yep, for sure. And, uh, as you've said, and I've said, and you know, everybody says it's, you know, don't care where you listen, as long as you, uh, can find us and listen, that's great, . And there's, there's no rules. You know, you have the ability to create the content you want, the way you wanna make it, and that's, that's the beauty of it as well. So, uh, hey, uh, after this we're gonna have a, uh, interview. I, I did with, uh, Tom Rossi of Buzz Sprout, believe it or not, but, uh, he's kind of one of the co-founders of the, uh, podcast standards project. We're gonna talk about that a little bit right after this. And if you get a chance, give us some feedback. What do you think a podcast is?

15:56 Drop us An email. Email link will be in the show notes. And today I, on the show I have Tom Rossi from Buzz Sprout, and more importantly to me anyway, the podcast Standards project. How you doing, Tom? Pretty. Good. Pretty good. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I figured, uh, you were one of the founders of this, uh, new project, and, uh, and I, and I feel bad because I haven't really dug into it too much, so I figured I'd get it from the horse's mouth. I appreciate it. Tell us a little bit about yourself first, and then, uh, we can get into the subject. Sure, sure. So, so my name's Tom Rossi.

16:37 I am one of the co-founders of Buzz Sprout, and just a big, big fan of podcasting and wanna see it continue to thrive. Well, that's good. Yeah. We all do mm-hmm. for sure. And yeah, this new project, you know, like I said, I've kind of paid some attention to it. Of course, Todd's big involved into that. And, you know, I hear stuff and I read some stuff on the, on the, uh, you know, on the back end there, uh, what do they call it? Base Camp? Mm-hmm. , something like that. I guess it's better than Slack. I don't know. . Yeah. Yeah. The idea is to have, you know, some focused conversations, slack makes it kind of hard to, it's just all over the place.

17:19 So that was the idea as we were trying to get our ducks in a row of what exactly can we do, what exactly could we launch? That's what we used it for. But now everything is moved into GitHub, and that's where all the communication is taking place, so we can be entirely transparent and anybody can go see the conversations that are, that are taking place. Yeah, a lot of the, uh, podcast industry has joined in and helping out here, of course, us here at Blueberry and you Buzz Sprout, captivate, red Circle, r s s, translator, acas Casto. So a lot of hosting companies are jumping in. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's been great. Everyone was really open and it was fun.

18:02 I mean, to have competitors that can, you know, work together, this is, it's just kind of fun to do that. Yeah. What do we call that? F Frenemies? No, frenemies. . Not really. We all kind of hang out at the, at the shows and stuff. We all mingle amongst each other and pretty much know everybody at a lot of the places. I know a couple people from Buzz Sprout. I think I, I know I've met you, but I don't remember where, or when . I'm sure at one of these conferences. Well, it might have been Pod Fest in Florida sometime. Yeah. I love, I love going to, uh, the conferences and being able to meet real customers, not virtually . Yeah. Yeah. I spend a lot of my time with customers virtually, and it is definitely fun going to those things.

18:47 So the podcast Standards project, uh, looking right at the site here, it says, advocating for Open Podcasting, that's similar to the Podcasting 2.0, but not exactly. How do the two projects differ? Well, podcasting 2.0 movement is, you know, this is kind of part of it where we're advocating for podcasting, um, but we're not actually coming up with the ideas and, you know, running, they, they say, you know, running with Scissors, this idea of just trying different things and breaking stuff and, you know, this is more the committee, the slower adoption of those standards as they come out.

19:30 And it's really, I mean, it's really based on what we saw in, you know, the late nineties with the web standards project, when we really needed to have some standardization of what web browsers were gonna support. Even though there was tons of ideas that were coming out, there were tons of tags that were being created. Um, we needed somebody else to, to help say, okay, well, which ones can we agree to, to adopt? So that way we can see 'em move forward. And that's really what the standards project is able to do, is to get together and say, okay, well, what can we all agree ? Where where can we, you know, start to, to do this, but always with the intent of advocating for keeping podcasting open, keeping it something that is driven primarily by r s s since that's, that's the protocol that's gotten us where we are. And so that's, that's kind of, you know, how they relate to each other.

20:20 Yeah. We've, uh, we've been adopting a lot of the, uh, podcasting 2.0 features as we like to call 'em, instead of tags, everybody's eyes glaze over when you say tags, . Yeah. Yeah. And, and hopefully, hopefully most podcasters won't ever have to know any of this stuff. Right. Um, the only reason it's important right now is just that they're aware that there, there are companies that would like to shut the door on podcasting. They would like to make it a closed garden. You know, they don't want it to be open to everyone. And so podcasters need to be aware of that. But that's, you know, and, and that we're hoping the podcast Scanners project can be something they can rally behind, even if they don't understand it.

21:01 But they do understand the idea that I want my podcast to be available everywhere. I don't want it to only show up in one place where they could just turn me off tomorrow. Yeah. And that's, uh, that's one of the things we talked about earlier in the show when, uh, Todd and I were talking about what is a podcast? And that's kind of what the standards project's gonna do, is it's gonna sort of define technically, you know, what is a compliant podcast, kind of, but not, not in a, a hard handed way, I don't think. Right. Yeah. Just so that there's some agreement in what, what the terms mean. Yeah. That's, uh, that's one of the things in podcasting that's always vexed me, uh, uh, working in support and, and all that. You know, when someone says the word show, what does that mean? Yeah.

21:52 . Yeah. It could be an episode, it could be the overall show, you know, that kind of thing. And yeah, so it'd be good to have, you know, a little bit of kind of a standards. I, I kind of equate it to the, uh, stats thing from, uh, iab. It's not a hard, fast rule, but if you have these certain things and they work the way they're supposed to, then your standards compliant. Yeah. It's very, it's similar in that it's, it's a set of standards, but where it's different is that we want it to be, we don't want there to be a dollar value attached to it. So like, there's some obstacle for innovation because they don't, they're, they can't spend the money to be able to, you know, get their IB certification.

22:36 But by putting everything out there and making it so that anybody can go and read what does it take to build a podcast standards, project compliant, A P S P compliant r s s feed, we wanna just make that available to everyone. Yeah, that's a, a good way to do it. You know, for the longest time, like you said, uh, you know, the suits are coming and you know, you, you look at outfits like Spotify, they bought a hosting company and then they made r s s optional, which it's their company. They can do what they want, but those podcasters, they'll use air quotes that are on that platform, don't realize what distribution they're missing out on by being simply on Spotify. And, you know, and I also look at YouTubers. I, I know, you know, several YouTubers that make their living doing YouTube.

23:29 What happens if YouTube decides they don't like 'em one day, boom, they're gone. And with podcasting in general, and, and with the standards project and podcasting 2.0, it's gonna make that less likely to happen. You know, you can still get sort of canceled, but it, it takes a lot more to cancel a podcast completely than it does to, uh, you know, just for YouTube to shut you off or TikTok or whatever. Yeah. I mean, with an r s s feed, as long as you've got an r s s feed, you can, you can keep it out there. They might be able to cancel you from one place or another, but they can cancel you from everywhere. If RSS goes away, that's what you start to lose.

24:12 We use an example when we talk about this, and it's probably a bad example, but Alex Jones, regardless of what you think of him or what he does, he's still podcasting. He's not on Apple, he is not on YouTube, he is not on any, any podcast related thing. He's not on any social stuff, but he still can podcast. Whether or not you don't want to go search him out, that's up to you. Right. But that's up to you. That's that's the way it should be. Right? Yeah. You know, and part of free speech, you know, I always been told that, you know, free speech is not for stuff you agree with. It's more important for stuff you don't agree with.

24:52 Definitely. N no one ever talks about it a about the things that you agree with . Yeah, exactly. This is interesting. I have to get on the GitHub and see what's going on over there. Now you guys have a couple of, uh, of things that you've already proposed. What are some of those? Well, what we did was we started with just a few of the, the companies that were out there got together and said, look, what, can we just start to agree with what tags, what features are we willing to implement? Then we've proposed that as what we're calling PSP one for the, the podcast RSS standard. And so all of that is out and open for, you know, any kind of debate, uh, over what would be included and what it looks like.

25:41 And that's in our GitHub under the, the PSP one podcast, RSS standard. Uh, and so I'd encourage anybody who's interested in like, having a voice in it, but this is not the place to suggest new tags. You might advocate for a tag that's already been adopted in the podcast index, but, uh, this is really more of like, what do we want to say this, this is what we all agree to, and then hopefully we can get enough people to do it that we get some critical mass to gain more adoption. Yeah. Cuz uh, you know, podcast Index, that's, that's where you would go to propose new stuff because that's what they do. Mm-hmm. , this would be, okay, we'll take some of those features and propose that as something that we all want to implement as hosting companies and app developers. And, and I guess, is that about it just it's for podcast companies and, and developers or, yeah.

26:36 Yeah. I mean, it's really for the technical people, for the players and the hosts. You know, those companies that are digesting r s s feeds, but who knows what other, what other things will come out of it. Once you've got a group like this that's agreeing on moving together, for example, like Pod Ping. Pod Ping is the ability, you know, when an r s s feed is updated, pod Ping is a way to notify subscribers, Hey, this RSS feed has been updated rather than some type of polling solution. But it's also been extended into things like the lit tag to allow you to do live, live podcasting. And so as those kind of things that aren't necessarily r s s tags, uh, as those things are adopted, this could be a group to help advocate for that.

27:22 Yeah. Pod Ping's been kind of a game changer for some of the new apps. And, you know, I noticed my app that I listened to podcasts on, in this case pod verse updates a lot quicker than it did when I was using Apple or Overcast, something like that. And, you know, pod Ping, it's slick. I, I like it. And you know, as a directory owner as well, you know, with Blueberry, we have a, a directory, we're starting to ingest pod pings and adding shows to our directory just to, you know, it's a listener directory. It also allows us to do other neat things. So Yeah, it's a, it's, it's a neat technology and it Yeah. It's not necessarily an RSS thing, right.

28:09 But. It, it's a feature you've probably done support as well. One of the big C places, I just posted my episode and it's not on Apple yet. What's wrong? Yeah. And it's like, well, nothing's wrong. Podcasting's a poll technology and podcasting sort of, it's not really a push, but kinda. Yeah. And that's the, the friction that exists in the, in the podcasting world, right? That they publish their episode, but there's a delay in how long it takes to get out. That's how they experience the, the friction and the issue. And then we get the emails, right, we're the front lines. So we're the ones supporting the podcaster. We wanna help them have the best experience possible.

28:49 They've been working hard to get their content, they finally get it out there, and now they're at the mercy of some polling algorithm to figure out when it's time to pull down the RSS feed versus something like Pod Ping, which just notifies them. I mean, I like it as a technical person as well because I feel like it is a better technical solution. It doesn't make sense for you to hit my RSS feed every five minutes to see if an episode has been published. If an episode hasn't been published in 12 months, it doesn't make, and you, you're just taxing the internet with your request. . I mean, you know, when you're, when you got 4 million shows to paying every so often, that's, oh my gosh, when really exactly about 250,000 that are active at any, any given month. Maybe a little more than that, but still, that's a whole lot less that you have to pull, especially if someone's got a monthly show. Okay, so you're gonna hit them 20 times a day for 30 days.

29:47 Mm-hmm. for that one time, for that one time that they release an episode. And of course the, the server's gonna ping it about 10 minutes before the episode goes live. So then they have to wait another cycle. mm-hmm. just how it goes. But I don't wanna get too geeky here, but this is a geeky project and that's . That's good. It is. Cause you know, someone needs to be doing the tech, you know, the goal is to make the tech disappear, but you gotta do the tech to make it disappear. . Yeah, exactly. As far. As the end users anyway, the listeners don't care as long as they get their shows, you know, definitely the, the podcast creators do.

30:27 Yeah. And the podcast creators, they, they know the pain associated with the sporadic, how long it takes to show up in different places. Sometimes it's instantaneous, you know, and sometimes it's not. And so they know that real pain. The, the fun one is, is when somebody says the last 10, 10 episodes have been an Apple within the hour, and why is this one not? And you go look and nothing's wrong, and you're like, uh, well I don't know. Apple's slow today. . Right, right. And we've all seen it where there, there are issues, right? Yeah. Gosh, it was a couple years ago where it was taking forever for Apple to get updates. And so we were just getting, our support was just getting hammered. Um, and they don't understand. It's not a, they don't love the response, but there's nothing we can do. It's in your RSS feed, you can go see it.

31:14 That's the thing too, is, you know, different apps do different things at different times and hopefully with the standards project, the more apps that sign onto it will adopt Pod Ping and, and some of these other features and it'll make the experience the closer to the same, whether you're using Apple Podcasts or Overcast or Android app or any of the new apps. You know, so the, the more apps that we get on board with this, the better as well for the end user and even the, uh, listeners. Yeah, definitely. We want listeners will start to experience things, uh, like transcripts where they're like, oh my gosh, this is so nice.

32:00 If I listen in this player, I can actually see a transcript while I'm listening to the episode. And so then the listener even starts to get involved cuz they're saying, well, why is it that, um, in this app I don't, but in this app I do. And so that's the hope with something like the, the podcast standards project, we can advocate for those types of features. Yeah. The transcript thing's big. I, I, that was the first thing that we adopted as a company. Blueberry. We adopted that for our player, for our web player. And that's been a game changer for a lot of people that I think the more of the use cases, people that are hard of hearing, not necessarily completely deaf, or they're trying to learn English or whatever other language as a second language and they can kind of follow along and, you know, same thing if it's right in your app, that's even better. You know, it's only some of the apps do that right now, but hopefully we'll get more adoption and that's a useful thing, you know, to the listeners and not just for the podcasters, how do we get ahold of you or, uh, the project? Gimme the spiel?

33:10 Sure. I would, I would think the, the best place to start is probably the pod standards website, pod standards.org. And then there's links to our GitHub and our Twitter account and everything from there. So you can check out what it means to, to get involved and what the things are that we're proposing. So I would definitely encourage anybody that's interested in the project to go to pod standards.org. Okay, very good. And we'll have links in the show notes to all this stuff as podcasters. Love to say over and over and over again. . And just to say too, like you could reach out to any of the companies that are listed on the site there, and we're all in the same boat. Like we all agree on what, what you see on that website there. So you don't have to reach out to me.

33:53 Feel free to reach out to any of these companies that are involved and let 'em know. Let let 'em know what you think. Yeah, yeah. And definitely Todd's big time involved in this, so, uh, blueberry's a good place to also ask about it. We'll try to answer. I'll send you to Todd usually, but anyway, well, thanks for, uh, being on today. That, that was, uh, that was great. You're the, you're the first competitor on our podcast Insider show, so that's awesome. What's going on at Buzz Sprout by the way? Just, oh. I can't tell you. Can't tell you. Okay. Good. . I can't tell you either. . Thanks for joining us. Let's meet up next week and in the meantime, for more information to subscribe, share or follow, check out the show notes@podcastinsider.com to check out our latest suite of services and help Blueberry can help you leverage your podcast.

34:46 Visit blueberry.com. That's blueberry without the ease.