Episode 47 – Spiritual Gardening: How to make safe spaces for amazing conversations

John sits down with a firecracker of faith this week; Josh Kwan. Together they discuss the deeply personal challenges of stewardship, generosity, and living into our faith. Josh discusses the difficulty of following an iconic founder, and the importance of maintaining the ethics of innovation and generosity beyond the first generation. Along the way, Josh gives us some of the keys to creating the liminal experiences that The Gathering has become known for. If you needed an hour to brighten your week, this is it.

• Josh Kwan (01:43): as a founder, and I’ve started a few things in my time, and each time I’ve had so much trouble letting it go and not letting my identity be entirely wrapped or consumed by this thing that I tried to create
• Josh Kwan (02:16): Fred [Smith] says, no, my time as founder is done. And so the next person is not a caretaker, but a founder, which says, I’ve had the freedom and autonomy and responsibility to create something from what he’s given me
• John Marsh (03:42): You hold a safe space to have great conversations. 
• Josh Kwan (04:30): we have been extraordinarily blessed. We’ve been blessed to live in America, to be living in the 21st century, to have SA or to have a savior who loves us. And then that also comes with a few insecurities, shared insecurities around, am I doing the right thing? Am I being obedient to my calling or to this responsibility to live out the scriptures as best as we can? 
• Josh Kwan (05:54): can tell you what, it’s [The Gathering] not. It’s not just simply patting each other on the back and saying that, oh, you are so smart, John. Oh, you’re so handsome, John. Or you are, you’re flawless John.
• Josh Kwan (06:48): We have a common hope, and then we also have this beautiful opportunity to do something about the things that we see in the world that we feel are broken or pained or people who are suffering. And so the encouragement is not to feel overwhelmed or to feel downtrodden by guilt or to feel morally superior or that we’re somehow smarter. So I think there’s a bit of a tension and a bit of a push and pull and where can we land that’s just the right amount of encouragement and not one of the other elements of guilt or shame or obligation or It’s so 
• Josh Kwan (08:45): how I think about the gathering, I don’t want people to just walk away and say, Hey, that was fun. Or, oh, well, wasn’t this interesting? But it, it’s actually to encourage that word again, people to go be a little bit deeper in their relationship with one another and maybe in their relationship with their savior and their Lord, and then maybe in relationship with their interior of how they understand this stewardship of all these resources that we call it, these resources temporarily entrusted to your care do with it.
• Josh Kwan (09:30): another wonderful phrase that I learned from Fred Smith is that safety is not sterility.
• Josh Kwan (12:26): families that learn together, families that practice generosity together, it is such a beautiful element of our faith that transcends theological differences, that transcends, families get messy when the focus on politics or on the messiness of life and society and culture.
• John Marsh (13:29): What could we do for the good of our city that will last 50 years and no one be able to undo it?
• John Marsh (15:43): our common friend Doug Wilson says, he says, there’s a difference in a somewhere person and an anywhere person and a somewhere person is actually implicated. Once you say, I’m staying here. Well then every building you build, you’re going to live with it. Your trees, you plant, you’re going to want to take care of. And there’s something about this community of stewarding.
• John Marsh (19:03): If you want to take our personal financial statement and write net worth, put Jesus. Cause that’s what we cost. 
• Josh Kwan (19:56): sometimes when we think about generosity and what’s available for us to deploy, we overthink the financial asset and undervalue the Holy Spirit asset. 
• John Marsh (23:20): God showed me, he said, the answers in fishes and loaves measure, manage, and multiply. He said, if you’ll measure it and you’ll manage it, I’ll multiply it. See, I think multiplication is one of the fruits of the kingdom. Love, light and multiplication.
• John Marsh (24:17): peace is God’s seal of approval. It’s the empire of God’s decision making.
• John Marsh (26:14): we’ve learned is that God loves keeping up with things. And so we write down what we’re praying for specifically. Because if you know what you’re praying for when it came to pass.
• John Marsh (31:49): I think that God loves surprising us and being there for us along the way. He’s always surprising us. And it, it’s powerful.
• Josh Kwan (33:54): When you put money into a relationship, things get gnarly fast. And sometimes it’s a multiplier, It’s a force multiplier for any disagreements or conflict. You can look at the world and be overwhelmed by the problems, the challenges, the tragedies, what feels like despair. But on the other side, there are so many great ministries and nonprofit organizations doing great work. How can I even choose one of these? In both situations it’s paralysis.
• John Marsh (37:21): everybody has to make their own decisions and honor God with, and again, as we said earlier, money is one thing. Your time is another. We’re writing checks with our life. Yes. Where are we going to invest these gifts we’ve been given? And especially as you’re entering different seasons of your life
• John Marsh (38:56): one thing I would encourage people, the only thing I’ve found that keeps greed at Bay is generosity,
• Josh Kwan (50:07): What are we going to be known for and we ought to be known for our love.

• Connect and learn more about what we do at  https://www.marshcollective.com/
• Connect with Marsh Collective on LinkedIn
• Connect with Marsh Collective on Facebook
• Josh Kwan – LinkedIn
• Josh Kwan – The Gathering
• The Gathering – website
• Praxis – website
• Fred Smith, founder of The Gathering – LinkedIn
• Doug Wilson – podcast episode
• Pete Ochs – podcast episode
• The 5-Fs, Faith, Family, Fun, Fitness, Finance – website

What have you read that we should read?

• The Zealot and the Emancipator by H.W. Brands

Who do you know that we should know?

• Steve and Susan Vinton (Tanzania)
• Village Schools International

Where have you been that we should go?

• What’s an experience that you say you’ve got to experience this?
  • Try turning hospitality on those we want to give to. Instead of them wooing us for money, we should woo them.